General Chat: The Smashening

I don't have too good reanimator cards though and the good ones are expensive AFAIK (I do have Life//Death and Vigor Mortis, both of which I'll definitely add to the deck)

And yeah, if I go B/U/G I'll add some Dimir for Transmute stuff

EDIT: Talking about cards I have, I do have Black Mike, but won't he be a bit less useful if my deck is fully of things that give my creatures +1/+1 counters?

I meant that noone cares enough about Normal to suggest fixing it, which... you actually kinda proved lol :B Not that people don't care about using it in OU. Nobody cares about *anything* in OU. Stuff that is good gets into OU and that's why anybody would care about them, not the other way around, and Normal... is not good. Remotely! Poison and Bug and such are at least considered "worthy" of having fixes made but Normal just gets forgotten about. Which is bad considering it's the second most common type after Water.

I don't know why I'm uneasy about Grass resisting Fairy? I can't honestly say why it gives me the heebie jeebies. It just does. Maybe because it'll make MegaSaur too reliable, maybe because it'll make Azumarill weak to an increasingly popular type, maybe because it'll be superior to Poison, maybe because Ferrothorn. I don't know, I don't think I have any solid reasons. I think it might because I feel that Grass is just generically slightly subpar and would benefit from some indirect buffs, like... better moves, perhaps.

Grass has okay moves, no Earthquake but between powder, drain and various other tricks, their moves are actually pretty decent.
As for resisting, Msaur and Ferrothorn already resist Fairy, they'll only resist it doubly after the change. And Azumarill won't get weaker to Grass then it already is, at least not by much. And Ice Beam will help Azumarill just as well as it did previously.

I haven't put too much thought into this, but one thing that would probably help would be if Steel got its resistance to Ghost back.

that's why you pack things that move +1/+1 counters back and forth. and you combo with things that have persist. dance of the dead, animate dead, living death, phyrexian delver, whip of erebos, doomed necromancer, victimize, rescue from the underworld, reanimate, exhume, and sheoldred are all relatively affordable.

...I.E Not at all? Azumarill never runs Ice Beam. Huge Power doubles Atk. Ice Punch MAYBE but even with the threat of grass types it runs other moves (Also Venusaur is neutral to Ice and Ferrothorn hates Superpower more). Facade, even, because of the threat of Burn. 

I'm thinking mostly Grass type gimmicks, or coverage; things that expand how we think of Grass types. I still want a grass-flavoured Fire priority move with terrible Fire Pokemon distribution, but that'll never happen. Instead, quirky things like Defog, or Roost, or Flying Press/Frost Breath. Grass types appreciate having roles to fill, and in fact the best ones always do.

I'd have to vote ixnay on the steel thing. Steel is still absurdly good and it deserved what was coming to it. Also, that would remove one of Aegislash's four weaknesses.

EDIT: For Bug, besides the de-nerf of Fairy, I'd settle for an increase in the base power of bug moves, Bug Buzz and X-Scissor mostly, though a Bug-type Giga Drain would be nice. Flying/Bugs are never gonna be good with the stat spread GF lumps on them so there's not much point boosting them; really all of their stats are subpar, except for exceptions like Scizor. U-Turn is a dangerous move and boosting it could be detrimental, though I do think most Bugs should get it (cough Forretress cough). IMO Bugs should be a cross between the Ice and Grass types; glass cannons almost, but with support abilities, e.g. baton pass, powders, and U-turn.
EDIT EDIT: Bug resist ghost is a big jump and unlikely, but it solves a lot of problems.

Okay, lets see..

The type shift would make Aegislash better, but between Ghost and Steel, it got one of the best typings possible and with Fighting type moves for coverage, there isn't much you can change about that. If you want to nerf Aegislash, take away Shadow Sneak and his Special Attacks and he's much weaker already.

That said, the most shift ideas seem to be...
Change Steels Psychic resistance into a Ghost resistance. That weakens Ghosts and makes Psychic stronger. Downside is the Aegislash thing.
Make Grass resist Fairy and remove Fairys resistance to Bug.
Either make Water weak to Poison or make Ice resist Water, probably not both though.
Point at Normal and laugh at its tears of shame.

Some new moves, too. Maybe a bit restriction on who gets Ice Beam. Maybe add an Ice version of Flare Blitz. More access to Freeze Dry for Ice types, maybe via breeding or tutors.
Maybe a Grass move that prevents switching, though that might be too mean...
Something something, Poison moves, something something Bug moves...

EDIT: Oh, and some reliable physical Rock moves. Mostly only destributed among actual Rock types. Even if it'sjust a Rock type version of Iron Head. Though I admit, I'd prefer a Rock version of Crunch

Idk about Flying/Bug, Dee, Some of them are pretty sick if used right. Most are niche and somewhat predictable, sure, but a hell of a lot of Pokemon are nichey.

The one that isn't Nichey and is dangerous is Mega Pinsir of course. Sure it starts as pure Bug, but that rarely lasts, unless if you're REALLY keen on getting that Moxie +1 boost. It hurts.

Ninjask is still a pretty good setup sweeper, or even a passer. It's outclassed by Scolipede, but that raw speed from the off can be very useful.

Yanmega does a similar thing, except it's special based, which means it can Bug Buzz through subs well.

and Vivillion does what Venomoth and a Few Grass types do only with a few more useful support moves iirc (does Venomoth learn Aromatherapy?) and a different typing (ie different STABs). Plus a 100 Accuracy Hurricane is NIIIIICE.

Other than that yea, you're prolly right. Masquerain can do things, but not many, as can Mothim, and I guess Vespiqueen might be nice for something a little different. Eviolite Scyther is a thing I've never tried, but which could be of some use if your opponent happens to not be running Stealth rock or any Rock moves for some reason. Or Talonflame. The rest are pretty terrible. I just looked at Ledian and couldn't quite believe what I saw. Base 35 Attack REALLY? Quite a few Johto 'mons seem to be specially defensive speedsters actually. Ledian is that. It has no attack, little special attack and little HP and defense. Its speed is OK but nothing special. Its special defense as its highest stat isn't high enough to be useful.

Sure, but insofar as niche goes, there are niche Pokemon, i.e. Pokemon that are useless outside of that little bit of functionality, and Pokemon WITH a valid niche. Empoleon = Defogger with resistances and Scald, Alomomola = Huge wishes and Regenerator, Tornadus T = Offensive pivot with Flying Stab, Knock Off support and high Special def; even Donphan has an increasingly small but at least relevant niche. Whereas the niches that bug/flying types make either aren't niches at all or are ones not worth using. Ninjask only ever had a niche because of the Speed Boost + Baton Pass combo, and not because of its typing or stats; that's a combo that's almost broken on many Pokemon and far better done by Scolipede, as you said. Yanmega is a typical Special Sweeper only bug flavoured, but because of its typing it's not gonna hit that hard (too many resists) and it's not gonna last that long (too many weaknesses). Vivillon is still held back by it's slightly too weak base stats, particularly its typing, and it's weaknesses - it's too easy to check or to wall. 
Fact is, Bug/Flying types don't have longevity, that applies to Pinsir too (if you can survive a hit, that is). Which is where Pinsir wins; it doesn't need to last long because it hits so hard and so fast with priority. Bug type attacks have some pretty cool effects but they're all so weak in comparison to what they need. Bugs should find a niche abusing those moves, I think. In my head, bugs are either super-fast or super-slow; that's kind of how it works already except for things like Vivillon and the like which are just mediocre. But they should be able to abuse their support moves. Struggle Bug, Fell Stinger, Infestation: All moves with a pitiful base power but really usable effects - just not enough to be worth using. All Game Freak really has to do is make them balanced enough to the point that they're worth using; giving Fell Stinger priority but leaving it at 30 might be nice, if not just increasing it's base power. Same for Infestation and Struggle Bug; in fact, if Struggle Bug was spammable, it'd be a really cool niche for Bug Types - it wouldn't hit very hard but it would uniquely nerf Special Attackers and patch up some of their weaknesses a bit. Bugs definitely have some of the coolest moves, they're just way too weak.

Also most Grass types should have access to Earth Power. I see no reason why they don't already, it makes a lot of sense. Hardly any do, though!

More Pokemons should get access to Earth Power in general in my opinion.

but we have grass/fairy

Oh yeah! Dammit I can never *not* think of Whimsicott as anything besides a Grass/Flying type. I never consider it a fairy at all. But Whimiscott's typing is so separate from the Pokemon itself, it could be whatever and still maintain the same level of annoyingness.

Meanwhile, Florges wishes to see Whimsicott dead, and rightfully so, seeing as in 90% of cases Clefable outclasses Sylveon and in 99% of cases Sylveon outclasses Florges.

Wait, what does Florges have against Scotty?

EDIT: Oh snap, how did I miss this?

Hanky Panky wrote:that's why you pack things that move +1/+1 counters back and forth. and you combo with things that have persist. dance of the dead, animate dead, living death, phyrexian delver, whip of erebos, doomed necromancer, victimize, rescue from the underworld, reanimate, exhume, and sheoldred are all relatively affordable.

Hmm, I already have the Whip, I'll take a look at the others. As for Persist, what about the Cauldron of Souls?

what we need is a typeless pokemon not normal but literally nothing no weaknesses no resistances no stab now that would be interesting

Depending on what moves it gets, that could be neat but there are mons without weaknesses, and those have resistances and STAB moves, so you need something smart.

Oooh. That WOULD be interesting. If it HAD stab, then it'd be less interesting, because then you just have an unresisted attack like Dragons had, but without it, it's not as strong... With decent base power moves, they'd probably get used alongside STAB types with terrible coverage, but would at least get STAB. "???" type POKEMON on the other hand would be shitty because of a lack of STAB.

Protean, though. Protean.

(Florges is PO'd about not being Grass/Fairy)

I though the idea was a ??? type Pokemon not ??? type attacks.

Also, that's not Scottys fault, is it?

You probably wouldn't get just one of the other; it'd be a neither or both situation. Besides, how can you have no super effectives or resisted hits without moves to use, as opposed to weaknesses or resistances? For something to be truly neutral you'd need them all to be certain.


topic: where you are, (specifically, because "The USA" is kinda broad) are a) you likely to be late (also define "late") for things, e.g. parties, meetings, etc, and b) do people in your area care or take notice much?

a i get to a lot of my morning classes before the doors are unlocked so no im not likely to be late
b they notice but i dont think anyone cares at all

cauldron of souls would work
especially when paired with dead mike and a board wipe
nothing quite says fuck you like dodging a wrath of god with 1 mana.

d_what wrote:topic: where you are, (specifically, because "The USA" is kinda broad) are a) you likely to be late (also define "late") for things, e.g. parties, meetings, etc, and b) do people in your area care or take notice much?

What do you mean "where you are"?

As for the cards, alright, I'll try to get my hands on a Devour for Power deck and buys some of the other cards you meantioned, as long as they aren't too expensive.

While I want to build another Commander deck, I sadly rarely get a chance to use them, so I don't want to spend too much on this deck.

how much do the commander 2011 decks cost in Germany? any chance you can send me one of the BUG/RUG precons? depending on the price, obviously. they're like $80 USD here, which is hella expensive. i just want to get my hands on some reanimator stuff. and some of the old cards


obviously i'll pay for the fees, if the price is cheap enough. if not, then don't even worry about it.

They don't sell them anymore in my usual card shop, but I think they still sell them on the internet. That said, 80$ is about 60€, right? In that case I doubt it'll be much cheaper here. In my card shop I originally paid 30€ (I got the R/W/U Zedruu one, which is loads of fun) but the chance to find it that cheap is not too good. 50€ is probably more likely and that's still kind of optimistic. So with the fees it'll probably not be much cheaper. BUT if I happen to find it for the original 30€ I'll see what I can do

HEY GUYS

NEW SMASH STAGE
why milotic tho. why

Well, one of THOSE things is certainly not like the others, lol. Cool tho - but you know, I'd prefer some less end-game, more... regular, but still cool Pokemon stages? Any of the better known routes would do. Or Snowbelle city. Or Slateport. I dunno. Something that really says "this is Pokemon, right here yo". Lumiose is cool, but it's not *very* representative.

CYCLING ROAD!  okay it'd be a bit lame.