Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

by OverlordJ Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:53 pm

Yes and no.

I guess what you said would be true but only when nobility was first establishing itself. Later it was more the other way around, you weren't a noble because you had power, you had power because you were a noble. So it's more like, nobles in the Pokemon world could probably get more powerful Pokemons and items, thus being more powerful.

That said, it's true that royals could grant nobility to people who earned it in their opinion.

Is that what happens? Is the king granting you these ranks because you impres him so much?

by phantasmalDexterity Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:54 pm

It's a "private" club. You're over thinking it OJ, this is a game made primarily to 7 years old kids.

I actually like how Hawlucha looks like. I guess he would go better with a mexican themed region, but come on. Like bulls and kangaroos are so common in Japan. Yet Kanto had them. True that it's hard to find justification for Hawl, but that goes to 94% of the other pokemon.

Also, wrestling is a new age Art, being often quite theatrical.

by OverlordJ Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:00 pm

1) Okay, yeah, I guess I was over thinking it

2) I don't like how it looks but I guess that's just my opinions

3) HOWEVER: Kanto wasn't a Japan themed region.

Unova was America (mainly USA) themed while this gen is Europe/France themed.

Also, of course there are cows and thuse bulls in japan, too.

by d_what Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:04 pm

Okay, I like Hawlucha, it's hilarious and deceptively tough, (compare carbink: that thing needs am evo, hawlucha doesn't) but I will concede it does not at all fit in Kalos. Lots of other things do though! Kalos is European rather than French and the legends and starters all share European themes - admittedly Greninja trades in thematically dissonant 'ninja' for the obviously French frog. Meowstic is pretty parisian. Honedge: European, even Celtic European. Fletchling isn't but Talonflame is, IIRC. Flabebe and co, of course, and Spritzee. Many forest-based ghost stories are European in origin, so mark up the haunted tree and jack-o-lantern (English) too. Water types are hard to classify geographically, the sea is its own country. Vivillon, Furfrou. The rest are largely country-neutral... Except Pancham, Hawlucha and Pyroar. Those guys must've been imported. It's a marked step up from gen 5, which had few truly American pokemon and an odd number of distinctive foreigners.

Could've had native american references but NOOOOO wargle filled aaaaalll of the niches
And there's no way the musketeers and Lilligant aren't from Kalos.

by phantasmalDexterity Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:08 pm

d_what wrote:And there's no way the musketeers and Lilligant aren't from Kalos.

Well, it was stated after all that there is a connection between Kalos and Unova
Which is awesome considering the real life connection between them
Maybe in Gen VII we will learn the reason for Hawlucha.
But if not, there's still a reason: Fantasy.

OverlordJ wrote:3) HOWEVER: Kanto wasn't a Japan themed region.

Point taken

by muffinz Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:13 pm

Hawlucha has a weird design to me mostly because it is not a bird.
I mean, it's got "wings", but it has literal fingers on the end of them, with talons and everything. It also has a "beak" but that's really just a nose, since its actual mouth is a flat line beneath it. It looks more like a short man dressing up as a bird than an actual bird.
Also, its stat distribution is weird. 70/95/80/65/70/110? Why, exactly, should Speed be its best stat? Why does it not have more HP?

I haven't seen its coming-out-of-the-pokèball animation yet though, lemme go check it out.

by invisibleTerrarium Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:24 pm

It lands on the ground and does a luchador pose.

I for one love Hawlucha, it's the stupidest fucking design, but that makes it the greatest. That's pretty much the reason I like Dunsparce, Qwilfish, and Binacle too.

by cephalopodAscendant Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:25 pm

Dunsparce and Qwilfish have a certain charm. My main problem with Hawlucha is just that it makes no sense for Kalos. Binacle is flat-out hideous, and so is its evolution.

by OverlordJ Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:27 pm

I agree, the sword of justice are clearly french and Liligant seens rather fitting, too. Meanwhile, Hawlucha would have been much better fitting in gen 5.

That said:
The starters are okay though I am pretty sure that you have Chestnuts in America just as well and Fennekin is based on a desert fox, which isn't european at all.
Meowstic is a cat, I think every gen had some sort of catlike Pokemon, that isn't especially french or european.
Honeedge is Celtic, which isn't all that french, it is european.
I guess if you count Talonflame as a phoenix it'd be european...
Flabebe isn't european, it's just a fairy. It isn't even all that close to most fairies in european stories...
Spritzee lost it's right to call itself european when it didn't become a proper Plague Doctor, though I guess the other one is french-ish.
As you said, Jack-O-Lanters are English (Or actually irish I think?) but got popular in America, so it would have been much better fitting for Unova.
And spooky trees are actually more of a disney thing I believe. European forests are spooky for what hides in them, not because of haunted trees.
Vivillion isn't really french, it's just a butterfly.
But I admit, Furfrou is probably the most french Pokemon in this gen.
And yeah, the Legendaries are based on european mythology. Nordic mythology, so france has very little to do with them but alright.

by phantasmalDexterity Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:11 pm

Guys, does anyone else have problems with the expression game, or is it just me??? It's so freaking hard.

by cephalopodAscendant Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:12 pm

Yeah, it doesn't always recognize when I'm making the face.

by Spark Eletran Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:25 pm

Yeah the expressions are hard also I like Hawlucha but agree it's not really that fitting in Kalos... But then again, what region DID have like ONLY fitting Pokémon ?

BUT GUYS.

I just wanna talk about something real quick, a thing in the game that I saw while browsing TV Tropes after finishing the Team Flare plot, since now there wouldn't be as many spoilers about the story.

semispoiler? its a random npc:

by OverlordJ Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:53 pm

Reply to the Spoiler:

by invisibleTerrarium Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:04 pm

cephalopodAscendant wrote:Dunsparce and Qwilfish have a certain charm. My main problem with Hawlucha is just that it makes no sense for Kalos. Binacle is flat-out hideous, and so is its evolution.

You are making Sashimi the Barbaracle sad.
You do not want to make Sashimi sad.
He will wreck your shit.

by cephalopodAscendant Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:08 pm

Wheatley the Venusaur says otherwise.

by Spark Eletran Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:08 pm

OverlordJ wrote:
Reply to the Spoiler:

reply to the reply:

by OverlordJ Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:47 pm

Reply to the Reply to the Reply to the Spoiler:

by d_what Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:42 am

Eh, I see no value from speculation in the mystery item/place/thing so I can't really contribute.
But OJ, Kalos has been way note about style than it has been about biology. That's why Fennekin and co get a pass, they're stylin' parisian-ways. Also the European mediaeval RPG character classes. Less so about the desert fox and chestnuts. Likewise for flabebe, and anyway, the name...! They're regal pokemon, Florges is definitely a faerie queen... Uhhhh maybe that sort of explains Litleo, the regal thing, but probably not as it would have been made more obvious. It DOES help explain Tyrantrum, though. Where Aurorus or whatever it's called takes the beauty theme. As does meowstic. That thing's gonna be on ALL the fashion circuits this year, Elesa WISHES she had dat swag.
And anyway, we can't really blame GF for sticking to Disney stereotypes like the Germanic haunted wood. It's what people grow up knowing, see: all fairy pokemon, including 'flower fairies'. It counts, though I'll admit seeing a pumpkaboo in unova would be pretty great. Except only in october. The jack-o-lantern European myth works all year round!

Shame we can't build a time machine and retroactively sort all of the pokemon out by region so everything really feels like it fit. I genuinely feel that the genies were a gen too late while the musketeers were a gen too early. But then a lot of pokemon really are generically placed; the golems and birds would work anywhere really.

by OverlordJ Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:44 pm

What do you mean "parisian-ways". The classic medival european classes are Knight, Mage, Rogue and Priest. I suppose Ninja could take the place of the Rogue but still, those classes are used in pretty much all RPGs, japanese ones as well.
Florges doesn't fit european mythology at all as far as I know. Plus, our fairies are pretty mean...
Litleo doesn't pull the regal stuff off at all.
Tyrantum is fine.
Meowstic isn't really that pretty...
I admit, I guess I shouldn't have expected them to be better then to stick to silly stereotypes. It still upsets me a little.
And Jack-O-Lantern as a european myth doesn't work all year around, especially if you use a pumkin instead of the turnip from the original myth. Plus, he's supposed to haunt the world of the living on All Hallows Eve. Or as it's called nowadays, Halloween.

You know what, I've been planning on starting a thread where I "revisit" the gen 6 Pokedex and fix all the "mistakes" that were made in my opinion. We'll be able to discuss this there further if you want.

by muffinz Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:05 pm

Wow, I just found out about something quite interesting. It turns out that if you catch something in the wild that is unable to breed, it will always come with at least three perfect 31 IVs. Apparently, GF was trying to just make this apply to legendaries, but thanks to an error, it happens with all Pokèmon that cannot breed, most notably baby Pokèmon and Nidorina/Nidoqueen. So, if you've got something like an Azumarill you caught as an Azurill, or a Roserade you caught as a Budew, or a Nidoqueen you caught as anything but a Nidoran(F), and it's unusually awesome, that's why.

Oh! While we're on the subject, something else interesting has been found. Several old Pokèmon have actually had their base stats changed! Full list under the spoiler:

Spoiler:

by cephalopodAscendant Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:04 pm

We know that list isn't really comprehensive, since there are species we won't have access to in Gen VI until December (granted, it's mostly legendaries and starters, with only a couple other species from each generation). Although something that just struck me as odd: Serebii reports that Cottonee and Whimsicott are not obtainable, and yet we still know that they've been retconned to Grass/Fairy. Someone care to fill me in on how we've discovered this?

by d_what Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:29 pm

Yep! Post game there's trainers with non-native Pokemon. And the chateau and such can have EVERYTHING. I know the exact trainer with Whimsicott, too!

Kind of a shame though. Lilligant needed a second type far more than whimsicott needed one.

by cephalopodAscendant Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:38 pm

Okay, that makes sense. Serebii's been a little hit-or-miss for XY, although it seems to be mostly isolated to Pokéarth. The most egregious examples I've seen have been giving a trainer in Korrina's gym a Swoobat, giving Roller Skater Rinka (the person who gives you the roller skates) a Beautifly instead of a Zigzagoon, and missing the Surfing and Fishing encounter tables for a chunk of Victory Road. That last one is somewhat understandable (although surely they could at least put in the Pokémon that also appear elsewhere), but the other two should have been caught.

by variegatedDreamraptor Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:53 am

muffinz wrote:Wow, I just found out about something quite interesting. It turns out that if you catch something in the wild that is unable to breed, it will always come with at least three perfect 31 IVs. Apparently, GF was trying to just make this apply to legendaries, but thanks to an error, it happens with all Pokèmon that cannot breed, most notably baby Pokèmon and Nidorina/Nidoqueen. So, if you've got something like an Azumarill you caught as an Azurill, or a Roserade you caught as a Budew, or a Nidoqueen you caught as anything but a Nidoran(F), and it's unusually awesome, that's why.

Whoa, that's kinda hilarious and awesome.

It makes a lot of sense for legendaries, but... wow.

I wonder if they'll try to fix this or not. On one hand it's a bug, but on the other it kinda encourages you to train your Pokémon up from a low level instead of just catching evolved ones? And I think that kind of goes with what they're trying to accomplish with this game, what with the Amie boosts and all.

by d_what Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:27 am

It's not a bug, that's all kinds of intentional. Pretty neat I guess if I t wasn't for the fact that babies are rarely much of an issue.
If only they hatched that way... Scary Togekiss and Azumarill and Lucario all day long!

*riolu can't breed therefore baby.

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