General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
+16
Spark Eletran
tailoredGoose
Xaber
tinning3
Gelatino
Hanky Panky
muffinz
phantasmalDexterity
d_what
kotakun
cephalopodAscendant
OverlordJ
Hytheter
variegatedDreamraptor
invisibleTerrarium
NinteNerd
20 posters
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by Hanky Panky Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:06 am
I was wondering why you didn't have a marvel scale on that feebas.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by cephalopodAscendant Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:08 am
That's because it was a spare Feebas I got when breeding one for a friend. The one meant for her does have a Marvel Scale attached.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by Hanky Panky Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:12 am
I'll be happy to help with trade evos in the future, assuming my capacity to be online. Just holler at me.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by OverlordJ Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:59 am
Say, since I'll probably be able to trade with you soon-ish, would that offer for 5 IV Gastlys still stand? Or did I missunderstand something?
Also, what would you like in return?
Also, what would you like in return?
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by Hanky Panky Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:22 am
I already have my living dex, so the gastly will be a gift. Just trade a garbage mon
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by d_what Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:20 pm
Okay team thingy time, because I'm bored and headachey and exams are shitty and I could use the break.
in other news, I have no other news. Hope OJ got online alright. IIRC I added you a while back dude but I don't know what came of it since besides 30 seconds daily to check the Lotto, I don't have time to play lately.
- Spoiler:
----------preface --------------- Spoiler:
I want to build a team around a Haxorus. Haxorus sweeps are fun because he's both grossly overpowered yet a total underdog. It's a fascinating dichotomy. But mostly because he has Mold Breaker Earthquake and isn't total fairy bait.
The aim of a Haxorus sweep is to get at least one Dragon Dance in, and maul the opponents team. Frail Pokemon die without boosts, regular ones get outsped by a boost, and typically, stall teams get pooped on.
Moveset is DD/Outrage/Earthquake/Poison Jab. Backed up by Hax's HUGE attack stat, Mold Breaker, and a Lum Berry to prevent untimely burns or paralysis, it leaves teams in literal shreds.
HOWEVER. There are at any given time two events holding Haxorus back.
1) Can you find the opportunity to set up?
2) After what is likely your only opportunity to set up, can you continue a sweep after the first kill?
Both are vital to be aware of.
Haxorus is a little bit frail (though it can take a non-stab ice attack or similar, e.g. Donphan's Ice Shard or Vaporeon's Ice Beam) which prevents it from setting up on absolutely anything. Luckily, those elemental resistances are useful, and if a Pokemon can't OHKO and doesn't have priority or a sash, then a DD is in order. Nevertheless, the job is much easier with Screen support.
Enter Klefki! A simple Dual Screener set does the job here; Foul Play, Light Screen, Reflect, Thunderwave/Spikes, with light clay. Priority via Prankster, 'dem resistances, and defensive investment mean Klefki gets a lot of chances to throw up screens. Additionally, the two have good synergy. Haxorus can take the fire attacks Klefki attracts while Klefki can take Fairy, Dragon and Ice attacks in return, set up, and pave the way for a sweep.
However, even with Klefki, a setup is not guaranteed, and sweeps can be stopped. Haxorus cannot set up on Fairies (except on the switch), faster Dragons will always take the KO, (typically Scarf, but also other setup sweepers) and some Steel types are impenetrable even after some DDs. Then there's the usual motley mix of Physical Walls or Pokemon that can nullify setup with Whirlwind, Taunt or Unaware, or repeated fast burns (priority Sableye, scarf RotomW). Skarmory has two of these things, resists EVERYTHING Haxorus can do to it, and can heal/phaze/set up on it in return. Ice pokemon with a sash cause problems too - mostly Mamoswine, but Alakazam and Weavile are also troublesome. And, (oddball case) Banded Talonflame is a problem since Brave Bird gets priority and will 2HKO. And even with Klefki, Haxorus won't be able to set up until something is done about these Pokemon. (After a setup, little over half of them are no longer problems.)
Meanwhile, Klefki suffers from powerful Fire users, powerful Ground users, Taunt, and Setup mons. This can be both defensive (hazards) and offensive (opposing Dragon dances) setups. Magnezone can deal decent damage but is left wide open to my Earthquakes. After that, Klefki's okay.
Note the crossovers as primary threats. Skarmory can't be touched by either Pokemon, and will make setup impossible, while also setting up itself. Talonflame can start an early setup and sweep. Dragon Dance Charizard X is a huge threat if Haxorus can't set up a sweep before it does. Gliscor has Earthquake and can setup, while Landorus goes mixed commonly and can take me out fairly quickly. Faster dragons pre-setup (Garchomp, Noivern) or Agility Dragonite can hit Klefki super effectively. Mandibuzz will wall forever and has Whirlwind. Fairy priority doesn't exist, but Azumarill and co will still cause difficulties.
So what can I do about it with my four remaining slots?
----------team building!------------ Spoiler:
So, taking the overlap and severe threats as my primary targets, what I've got is:- Noivern
Garchomp (Especially Scarf)
Agility Dragonite
Skarmory
Talonflame
Mandibuzz
Char X
Sash'd Mamoswine
Vaguely all fairies
Gliscor/Landorus
(other less significant ones)
What do these have in common? Well, not a whole lot. Especially since I've omitted some from the list for reasons that are about to become clear: A large majority of them are weak to the fabled (heheheh) BoltBeam combo! Excellent! Now all I have to do is get a BoltBeam user! One that doesn't skimp on power though, since physically bulky walls are a problem, so Hidden Power and physical attacks are out.
So let's check out the notable Bolt Beam users.- Tyranitar
Mega Absol
Aurorus???
Starmie
Clefable
Goodra
Genesect (Ideal but don't have one and also, Uber)
Mew
Deoxys (Likewise cool but don't have one and anyway ick legends)
And some other less significant ones, e.g. Lapras.
...That's actually not a lot for a supposedly famous combo. For one thing, Water types are pretty underrepresented.
BUT ANYWAY. Goodra provides a lot of utility, but... it's a dragon. And moreso, it'll still die to Garchomp and Char X. And also physical fairies. And maybe even some steel types? So no.
Tyranitar is cool and sometimes runs Ice beam and Fire blast. But nobody goes full-on special. 95 bst with THAT attack stat? No thanks. Also, weak to Earthquake.
Mega Absol is the same; it CAN go special but is better off with some physical representation. And Fairy/Dark/Fire or Dark/Fighting/SD is far better. Plus it's so frail it's not gonna be able to take these guys down at all unless they all get sticky web'd or something.
So that leaves Starmie, and Clefable. Starmie fires off strong attacks, and as a bonus, gets Water STAB and a way to fend off Venusaur (only a check though, not a counter), AND Rapid Spin, though not all five things at once. But it's not going to be able to stomach scarf'd outrages or hurricanes too well, if at all, and certainly not after a switch into one of them. So, while I'm leaving it on the shortlist, it's a no for Starmie.
Gulp. That leaves Clefable. But... hang on a minute! Clefable has Magic Guard, so it can run a recoil-less Life Orb! Decent Power, Ice Beam can take out Hippowdon in one shot, and mauls Dragonite, Landorus and Gliscor! Thunderbolt will safely maul Talonflame, Skarmory and Mandibuzz, and only Talonflame can do anything in return! It also gets Azumarill, Char Y, and Togekiss! Moonblast also hits dragons that aren't Char X! And it gets healing, in the form of Moonlight and Wish, with respectable bulk. I could also go more defensive and do an Unaware set, countering setup sweepers! (though still not Char X). But I think I'd be better off relying on it's awesome coverage to take out those threats. And typewise? Yes, that's too fairies, but Klefki doesn't use Fairy STAB. Plus, it's neutral to Clefable's steel weakness and is immune to poison, whereas Clefable is neutral to Klefki's Fire and Ground! So no type issues. Consider Clefable in!- Noivern
#end of part 1
in other news, I have no other news. Hope OJ got online alright. IIRC I added you a while back dude but I don't know what came of it since besides 30 seconds daily to check the Lotto, I don't have time to play lately.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by OverlordJ Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:01 pm
I am not online yet, it's still a few hours at least untill I am with my parents and have thus Wi-Fi.
That said, what exactly is BoltBeam? Is it Thunderbolt/Solar Beam?
That said, what exactly is BoltBeam? Is it Thunderbolt/Solar Beam?
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by Spark Eletran Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:08 pm
its thunderbolt and ice beam
also ive decided that ill use the shiny 5-iv'd and hidden ability'd chespin that i got from a friend and named glitch on my z in-game team instead of a normal chespin
sry its too good of a chance
ill still choose a chespin though, for all intents and purposes i still want the game to treat glitch as my starter after all
also ive decided that ill use the shiny 5-iv'd and hidden ability'd chespin that i got from a friend and named glitch on my z in-game team instead of a normal chespin
sry its too good of a chance
ill still choose a chespin though, for all intents and purposes i still want the game to treat glitch as my starter after all
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by OverlordJ Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:20 pm
Spark Eletran wrote:its thunderbolt and ice beam
Oh that makes MUCH more sense, thanks for explaining it to me
also ive decided that ill use the shiny 5-iv'd and hidden ability'd chespin that i got from a friend and named glitch on my z in-game team instead of a normal chespin
sry its too good of a chance
ill still choose a chespin though, for all intents and purposes i still want the game to treat glitch as my starter after all
Hey cool, good luck with that
...
Wait, on Z? Do we even know anythin about Z yet?
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by Spark Eletran Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:58 pm
no but by "on z" i mean more like "on the third game whatever that is"
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by d_what Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:22 pm
Yeah lol I'm treating everything as though I already have it, it's just such a certainty this time! I keep planning teams with moves they can't use yet. Mostly 'cause I don't want to breed them in 5th gen. But I feel reasonably confident that Trick, Knock Off, the elemental Punches, Stealth Rock, Bug Bite, et al will be in the next game, and it'll be sooner rather than later. Even if it's not a Z. Only question for me is whether Defog will get it... probably not but GOSH it would be SO WONDERFUL! And I always hope for some oddball ones, like FRLG's Softboiled and Seismic Toss, or more U-turns, or *bless my weeping heart* Parting Shot that I can teach to Absol. UUUUGH that would be so cool. I'd ditch Swords Dance in a heartbeat.
(C'mon RSE remake!! I know, I know)
(but I hate having a sequel RIGHT AFTER the main game)
(although BW2 was *slightly* better being a proper sequel and not basically DLC)
(C'mon RSE remake!! I know, I know)
(but I hate having a sequel RIGHT AFTER the main game)
(although BW2 was *slightly* better being a proper sequel and not basically DLC)
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by cephalopodAscendant Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:17 pm
Well, hopefully Z will fix the story and bring it back up to par with BW. Move Tutors are honestly a given, even if we don't know exactly which moves we'll get access to. RSE remakes are still a total mystery and probably will be until we get a definitive statement one way or the other from Game Freak.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by d_what Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:35 pm
#Round Two!#
#end of part 2!#
halp guiz! I could really use your input! All of you could have something important to say! (And anyway I went to all the effort of formatting it nicely
)
- Spoiler:
Continuing on from the Haxorus/Klefki expo and the reasoning behind Clefable, we'll try to identify further threats added by the addition of Clefable. Also, we'll try tackling the remaining threats, and to work in other team supports; e.g. hazard control, coverage, backups and pivots.
------------------threats------------------ Spoiler:
Firstly: Talonflame is still rather an issue. Seeing as it's so popular, it would not be uncommon to find both Talonflame and 1 if not more of the Pokemon Clefable checks on the same team. Thunderbolt OHKOs but Brave Bird will do a lot of damage if they attack rather than set up. In fact, a +2 BB might OHKO anyway... gotta rely on 'dat Unaware bluff. Fortunately(?) Talonflame typically uses Clefable as a set up opportunity since they rarely run Thunderbolt and can't usually do much to Talonflame.
Heatran now becomes a problem. It can take out both Clefable and Klefki with little issue, and even though Haxorus takes it down, it is still troublesome.
Charizard X remains terrible.
Poison types are also becoming an issue, but not something that should be our primary concern at this stage, especially since they're mostly Gengar and MVenusaur.
And further ways to take out Fairies would be much appreciated.
(also I forgot to mention Gyarados last timewho can use Ice Fang and Earthquake but mostly just Intimidate my Haxorus and stop my sweep, that's a problem too, but, y'know, thunderbolt)
Charizard Y can Roost off thunderbolts, so that's annoying. Moar fire types. Also carries a bunch of coverage moves including Dragon Pulse :/
Ferrothorn is now the new Skarmory.
A note on fairies: MGardevoir is *usually* KO'd by Poison Jab BEFORE a boost, but I'll need speed to outrun it. Clefable and Sylveon are 2HKOd, which means I HAVE to nail them on the switch. Azumarill likewise. Klefki and Mawile fall to Earthquake and Sucker Punch doesn't do too much unless it's boosted first.
So, what do they have in common? Eh. Kind of a rock/ground weakness I guess, but it alternates. Y is immune and Heatran is neutral to Rocks. Not ideal, plus Y uses Solarbeam and there aren't *any* good Rock types bar Tyranitar. Who is unsuitable due to low physical defense.
??? Stealth Rock, then, may be the best option, with some form of phazing? It would also be nice to be immune to Earthquake instead of just taking neutral damage like everybody else does so far, bar Klefki.
So, interesting options:- Sp.Defensive Hippowdon can check Talonflame, and the 'Zards, though admittedly not both at once due to EV investments. Sandstorm is only an issue for Haxorus, though Clefable's Moonlight is halved. It can use it's own Earthquake, set up Rocks, and use Whirlwind. Downsides: Slow, Sandstorm is not too useful (neither is Sand Force), and 4MSS (can't Phaze/Rocks/Heal/EQ AND have Rock Slide). It's also completely weak to Ferrothorn and can be powered through. It also doesn't actually resist fire.
- Skarmory gets all of those things, and checks Venusaur, which is something I'd have to watch later. It can heal/rocks/phaze AND Defog, and using it in conjunction with Hippowdon means I can free up one of Hippo's moveslots. Unfortunately, it's prone to Taunt, and compounds my fire weakness. Defog is good but it blows away my screens
- Scarf Excadrill can provide a speedy and relatively powerful (mold breaker!) Earthquake and Rock Slide, which is useful. It can also a) Counter Fairies with Iron Head, b)Set Rocks, c)Rapid Spin, and d)kill Spinblockers with Shadow Claw, but of course it can't do it all and scarf rocks is silly :(While it's hardly defenseless, it too is also weak to Fire so it is ONLY an emergency check.
Other options?- Spoiler:
- There's also: Mandibuzz (doesn't really DO much to help me this time)
- Opposing Charizard Xs (too many dragon dancing dragons!)
- Scizor (Gets defog - also gets Rocks but won't be able to fit it in, counters fairies, can Pursuit, Knock Off, or even Aerial Ace MVenusaur (though not too effectively...), but is stupidly weak to Fire)
- Rotom W (incredible type synergy, loooooads of switch in opportunities for Haxorus or Klefki w/volt switch, useful special attacks, and BURN is incredible, but has no impact on hazards and doesn't actually end up useful against the Drought-inducing, Solar Spamming Charizard Y or the DRAGON set up sweeper X. Handles Talonflame though.)
- Scarfchomp (good coverage, resists Fire, and fast, but compounds fairy difficulties. May be worth a look though if they can form a dual dragon core.)
- Quagsire ( Unaware makes it *decent* against any Charizard not packing Solarbeam, and does very well against Heatran and Talonflame, and deters any form of setup with Clefable, but it's not that bulky and is not that strong. Makes MVenusaur HUGELY dangerous.)
- Opposing Charizard Y (Breaks through remaining walls for Haxorus, resists Klefki's Ground and Fire, decimates Ferrothorn and can do decent damage to MVenusaur, can take out Charizard X with Dragon Pulse, [it's very risky, since X can start spamming Flare Blitzes which WILL kill Y] but necessitates a good spinner and not a defogger. Sun helps Clefable's Moonlights but hurts any Water attacker I want to use.)
- There's also: Mandibuzz (doesn't really DO much to help me this time)
So yeah this is the part where I need suggestions! Tweaks, new Pokemon, critiques, cores, questions, anything. Remember, the ones above are just SmogonApproved ideas, and they can change as the team sees fit. You won't find BoltBeam Clefable there but it fits me perfectly. Good teams edit! In addition: I have THREE. WHOLE. SLOTS. But it'd be nice to get the majority of what we need in two, and use the other for augmenting. But they have to compliment each other. SO...Text agogo!
#end of part 2!#
halp guiz! I could really use your input! All of you could have something important to say! (And anyway I went to all the effort of formatting it nicely
)
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by muffinz Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:25 pm
So, um, Sir Upmaple died! I was fighting the Trevor/Tierno double battle on route 6, and the Corphish hit him with a +2 attack Vicegrip, doing the remaining 90%-or-so of his health in one hit without even getting a critical hit. That is a 55 base power neutral-damage attack with no STAB coming from 80 base attack on a pokèmon a level lower than himself, and it would have done half his health if it wasn't for Swords Dance. Jeez. I knew Pikachu were fragile, but that was just stupid. I can't even feel sad about this if he was really that awful at taking hits.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by d_what Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:45 pm
By Job you're right! I'd never thought of it! Corphish! A Corphish will solve all of my problems! Incredible!
Thank you for your pertinent contribution! This idea will certainly go the distance in testing!
*tests*
*D_what's computer exploded.*
Thank you for your pertinent contribution! This idea will certainly go the distance in testing!
*tests*
*D_what's computer exploded.*
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by kotakun Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:22 pm
use sunkern that will solve all your problems including the exploded computer
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by cephalopodAscendant Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:23 pm
Don't forget Luvdisc and Castform!
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by ilikeoctopus Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:34 pm
Magikarp is the best addition to any team.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by OverlordJ Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:44 pm
I'm gonna add all y'all friend codes now
EDIT:
I added everyone in the OP of the old Friendcode thread for now, I'll look who's still missing and add everyone probably tomorrow
EDIT 2: Also, what do I need to do for the game to recognize people as friends, or does it only show people who are online right now?
EDIT:
I added everyone in the OP of the old Friendcode thread for now, I'll look who's still missing and add everyone probably tomorrow
EDIT 2: Also, what do I need to do for the game to recognize people as friends, or does it only show people who are online right now?
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by Hanky Panky Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:46 pm
Only shows people who are online.
I had an idea anout what to do with all these gastlys. Gonna save what I have left after all yall get your pick. Then I'm gonna breed more 5 iv gastlys until I have 31 of them. Name every single one of them "TrickOrTreat" and give em all out on halloween this year over wonder trade. Should make lot of folks happy.
I had an idea anout what to do with all these gastlys. Gonna save what I have left after all yall get your pick. Then I'm gonna breed more 5 iv gastlys until I have 31 of them. Name every single one of them "TrickOrTreat" and give em all out on halloween this year over wonder trade. Should make lot of folks happy.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by cephalopodAscendant Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:54 pm
I don't think I ever posted in the Friend Code thread, but you can find mine in my signature. Speaking of which, I think I'm going to take out that spoiler because it's not really doing much.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by kotakun Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:02 pm
but spoilers are great i just had to take up its steed when you failed it
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by cephalopodAscendant Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:03 pm
Never change, kotakun.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by ilikeoctopus Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:34 pm
I would like a Gastly if that would be okay 
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway
by d_what Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:13 am
Thanks for the help guys O.O very helpful indeed!
Hey Hanky any chance those Gastly are related to the one I gave you and totally didn't forget about at all? That'd be cool.
Some news: Gengar is now the only Pokemon in existence who has been OU since the start of Pokemon.
R.I.P Starmie, may flights of angels sing thee to thy rest. ;_;
Hey Hanky any chance those Gastly are related to the one I gave you and totally didn't forget about at all? That'd be cool.
Some news: Gengar is now the only Pokemon in existence who has been OU since the start of Pokemon.
R.I.P Starmie, may flights of angels sing thee to thy rest. ;_;
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