The TCG Corner

Considering I am still on my phone and continue to not have internet on my computer, I'll see what I can do.

Funnily enough there's actually a very nice android app for the same thing! It doesn't support a whole lot of customisation and I don't think it can handle LANs, but otherwise it seems pretty speedy. I really don't know how fast the PC version will run online with shoddy internet, what I DO know is mine took 2 and a half hours to download (me having shoddy internet). I downloaded the app version in my University and it was very fast.

Although a quick test seems to show that while you can battle online opponents, it's random and doesn't let you pick. Hmmmmm.

OJ, you really ought to play EDH.

iT, i have a UWB, RUG, UG, RGB, and R deck built right now. can you guess what my two favorite colors are

I have a Zedruu EDH deck and I love it. I admit that it was mostly premade but I still tweeked it. Unfortunatly, I rarely get a chance to use it.

Hanky Panky wrote:OJ, you really ought to play EDH.

iT, i have a UWB, RUG, UG, RGB, and R deck built right now. can you guess what my two favorite colors are

Red and green.
alternatively, black and blue. Because that's what you will look like. When i beat you.

you got the two colors but not together.

i like blue and green the best

black is next

then red is okay

white is really boring.

and i don't know if you can beat me. i have a krenko deck that combos off around turn 4 almost regularly.

HEY HANKY or anyone who gets MTG I suppose
Some person (in the process of checking my person privileges, sorry) on Tumblr did a thing where they turned the key cards from the YuGiOh deck I use into MTG cards, approximately. The effects, insofar as I can tell, seem legit, but I was wondering whether they're balanced/good in MTG? I really have no reference point for it.

I'd link it but Tumblr won't let me link to the post > The share button redirects me to the register page, the little tabby thing has gone, and "notes" brings up an unlinkable popup. So, ummm... search Lightsworn on tumblr and click the image on the first page that looks like MTG cards if you don't mind?

I don't know how to tumblr, every time I try to look for something I get confused. If you can't like to the post, can you at least link to the persons tumblr or however that works?

There's no point :/ The post is absolutely BURIED under new posts and in any case, the person's blog is...

KIND OF. SMUTTY. tUmUt

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/lightsworn
and then zoom out a bit until you find the one that's a MTG card.




Edit: yaaaaaaay all my cards arrived I'm so glad!

Spoiler:

I'm gonna have to look for that tomorrow on a proper computer

EDIT: Never mind is this it? If yes, are there just seven or does it just not want to load the rest? Also, those are unbalanced but I'll tell you why later.

EDIT 2: And another one?

Turns out later is now.

Two things to keep in mind: In magic, the number of cards in your library is sixty, not forty, which is kind of important for selfmill. Also, we have the colour pie, not every colour can do every thing.

Okay, so you are playing selfmill? That's neat, not an uncommon strategy. Usually either Black/Blue or Black/Green though, but I guess we can make it work with Black/White.
Lets look at the cards.

Garoth:

Ehren:

Jain:

Lumina:

Lyla:

Ryko:

Wulf:

Celestia:

JD:

Sheesh, I'll do the second half in a second post

that land is broken as fuck.


you need to be paying life to get charge counters or something. hell, make it a 6 cost artifact that doesn't do anything else but gather charge counters. but playing it t1 into something that mills your library already and starts pumping itself because of that? fuck. that. shit.

edit - holy fuck the cards OJ elaborated on are broken. a mono white vindicate hound? HELL FUCKING NO.

and to compare to the dragon, look at myojin of cleansing fire. it's a 4 turn clock after removing the divinity counter and it DOESN'T DESTROY LANDS. could you imagine reanimating that dragon on turn 4 or earlier and just blasting everything else away? because people can and will do it. these cards are either useless or blatantly broken.

Hold up, the dragon doesn't destroy lands either. And it costs two white mana to activate, which is much harder for Reanimator then simply removing a counter. EDIT: Never mind, I forgot they only get the counter when cast from your hand.
But yeah, the Dog is crazy OP.
And in case it wasn't clear, the effect of the angel is of course still unfitting for white.

yes those are, umm, those. More so the first page, most of the second lot aren't used regularly if at all (Rinyan in particular is terrible.)

Also it's missing some archetype standbyes that aren't actually Lightsworn; Necro Gardna negates any single attack exactly once if it's in the Graveyard (which it would be if it was milled) and Plaguespreader Zombie can revive itself from the graveyard in order to aid summons. I've long since forgotten exactly how MTG works so I have no idea how they'd be converted. I'd appreciate your thoughts on balance though!

Well, both of those could easily made to work, in fact, there are loads of cards you can summon/cast from the graveyard, that's half the point of selfmill.

Also, I think with luck, a reanimator deck could use the dragons ability on the second turn, I'll post how in a sec

Turn 1: Play one of the Following lands: Caves of Koilos, Godless Shrine, Gemstone Mine or Swamp.
Cast Dark Ritual
Cast Entomb for JD
Cast Exhume for JD
Turn 2: Play a Plain, unless you played a swamp on the first turn, in that case play Fetid Heath

Boom, able to attack and use ability as early as turn two

Less interested in reanimators or fusion decks TBH, because I'm sure there's a million and two ways to combine existing cards with made up ones to break them. I did spot some inconsistencies in the cards themselves, though:

The deck is Mill to the point of insanity. That's the main thing. Effects, costs and stats are above average: The downside is the rapid milling. Seriously, you're looking at a quarter of your deck gone in a single turn. So things like Garoth speed that up albeit either inconsitently or TOO DAMN FAST while Wulf becomes an instant beatstick...

inconsistency #1): Wulf should not be summonable EXCEPT via card effects. I don't know how costs work exactly, but if a Wulf gets milled, it's summoned regardless of whether or not you can afford it. And it's dead in the hand.

Meanwhile, Lumina: Keystone of the deck I've always found; 3 mill is a nice amount and the effect has some wicked chains (discard a handed Wulf to summon a dead Lumina. Use new Lumina's effect to revive Wulf, etc etc) I would hope that the effect is always doable - but the thing with Lumina's effect is that it doesn't work on anything stronger than Wulf. Garoth and other Lumina are fine, Celestia isn't.

2) Celestia is a level 5 in yugioh: Is difficult to summon because you have to sacrifice another creature to use it. Perhaps the cost is a decent equivalent, I don't know.

3) Ryko is good, but should not be broken, because: In yugioh you can summon monsters in face-down position - the effect only activates when it's flipped, and that only ever happens once. If Lumina summons a Ryko, that Ryko is useless. If Ryko is summoned normally, it is ALSO useless. It's an added 1-turn delay to its effect really. The idea is it destroys the thing foolish enough to attack it face down in the first place, but it's a bit more flexible than that. Dunno how you'd translate that into MTG.

Jain is only alright. Just a boring beatstick, nice to have a one-off for Judgment's cost but otherwise not too impressive. Lyla is a staple because of the effect, but I gather it's not as important in MTG? Fair enough.

4) JD JD JD This is the *point* of the deck! Judgment Dragon is a TOTAL NUKE, but the MTG card missed one of the subtleties: J Dragon can be summoned if and only if (exhume wouldn't work with or without that cost: from hand only) you have four different lightsworns (hence milling = good, discarding = good, Lumina swarm = nice to have since it gets everything ready) in the graveyard... but the point is... once you have it, then it's free to go. There really shouldn't be any cost at all for it's summoning, or if there has to be, it should be a really small one. I think the effect cost should be greater; you'd only be able to use it's effect 7 times in a regular game; 3 approximates that better.

And I would agree from a MTG point of view the field/land is broken, but typically it's not used because you only ever use one field card at a time - added rule perhaps, one-off on the field? - and it's too often milled into the graveyard before it can be played. Also in reality it increases Atk and Def by 100 for each counter or whatever, which I gather is not quite as significant as a +1. Perhaps for every two.

(also you can remove 2 counters to prevent its destruction at any time kthxbye)


...I think the only way these would really work is if you included a "yugioh type" rule set; certain cards have a "Tribute 1/2" ability, like Celestia, or some sort of delay/flip implementation/substitution for Flip effects, and (can't remember if this is a thing in MTG) hand size is limited to 5 at the end of the turn, which reduces your options significantly r.e. draw engines like Garoth - a rule that says you can only have at most 5 "yugioh ruleset" cards in your hand at the end of your turn, maybe.


Also you may have noticed that besides JD, none of them have remarkably high attack strength. That's normal for Yugioh, because of the tributing thing. The whole point of swarming the field with the smaller guys (after using their mill and effect capabilities, the deck is basically a toolbox) is to aid summoning stronger guys, e.g. Michael, (slightly weaker attack stats than JD, same cost for a more targeted effect, probably would heal +1 per card removed on destruction) via Raiden(my favourite card tied with Lumina; a new one along with Michael so it wasn't covered by the tumblr post - similar stats to Jain but a really great during-turn mill effect and Tuner status makes summoning stronger things like Michael a breeze)

Okay, I can give some tips that would help I think.
1) Make the doggy tap as part of the cost, that forces a delay and means the enemy has a chance to kill the dog. Also, only make it able to kill creatures. Even then, an increase to three mana might be smart.
2) Make the land legendary and enter the game tapped. It makes a big difference. And yes, +1 is far more then +100
3) Then make Wulf that way. Cards without cost that aren't lands can't be played normally.
4) You can give JD an effect that prevents him from entering the game except for being cast from your hand.
5) Adding Yu-Gi-Oh! rules to MtG is silly, in that case you wouldn't be translating them into MtG cards anymore.
6) These cards you made are not cheap swarmers, they are slow beatsticks with low toughness. Stats like that are more common on red creatures. White creatures rarely get more then 3 power.

Okay, instead of continuing to analize, here are some suggestion how to make these work.
First of all, make Lightcycle trigger during the upkeep, it makes things easier for the following effects.
Garoth Cost:2WW 3/2 Whenever you put one or more cards from the top of your library into the graveyard, put two additional cards from the top of your library into the graveyard. At the end of your turn, if at least one Lightsworn has been put into the graveyard from your library this turn, draw a card.
Ehren I'm not sure yet
Jain Cost:1W 2/2 First Strike Lightcycle 3, +1 power while attacking
Lumina: Drop the haste I think. Keep the rest as is.
Lyla Cost:WW 2/1 Lightcycle 4 W, T: Destroy target Entchantment
Ryko Cost:1W 1/1 W, T, Sacrifice Ryko: Destroy target attacking creature, then put the top three cards from your library into your graveyard
Wulf Cost:/ 4/3 When Narcomoeba Wulf is put into your graveyard from your library, you may put it onto the battlefield.
Celestia Not sure, maybe something with a kicker cost?
JD Not sure, this one will be tricky
Land Legendary, enters tapped, gets one counter each turn if at least one Lightsworn has been put into your graveyards from your library this turn, counters have a unique name to avoid charge counter shenanigans
Shire Cost:W 0/1 Flying, Lightcycle 3, gets +1 power until the end of turn every time a lightsworn is put into the graveyard from your library

I'll try to figure out some stuff for the rest

EDIT: A little more
Aurkus - change the cost to green, that's fitting for the effect and blue doesn't get druids. It also helps you with limiting the colours of your deck
Other weird dragon - pretty useless but I guess it's fine
Jenis - I'd suggest changing the cost to 1BW instead of 2B/W, it'd fit her ability and if you want to play Lumina you'll need black anyways.
Rinyan - Change type to cat, this is not a rogue in MtG terms. Change the cost of the effect to 1W and move the line about putting a Lightsworn under your library to the cost, because if it's part of the effect, players are allowed to ignore it.
Shire - I already did her, look up

Charge spell - This might be fine, it sort of depends on the cost of the Lightsworn creatures
Solar Recharge - No. Just no. White doesn't usually get draw spells and between the first guy and the cat you already have two great ones. And all that milling helps you, too, if you don't act stupid while choosing your spells.

I play casual mtg and semicompetitive yugioh
I'm looking at the cards oj posted and i didn't read the other page and am too stupid to recognize literal yugioh card art when i see it so i'm like, damn wizards, you guys must really want to overcentralise tournaments
And then i look at the creature type and it's like "lightsworn shaman"
And im like
Shit

Idea for Ehren:
Cost:1WW 2/1 If a creature blocks Ehren, shuffle that creature into it's owners library. Lightcycle 4

Given the changes... and admittedly, the fact that concepts don't translate too smoothly into MTG... they sound less and less like Lightsworns. I wouldn't worry about color though. That's never gonna be a thing in Yugioh, except for maybe certain Black/Dark archetypes and maybe Red/Fire burn decks (Are burn decks a thing? I vaguely recall them being a thing).

I'm gonna flash through an imaginary first few turns IRL with my deck to give you an example of the deck's capabilities. For reference: You can only normal summon once a turn; only 5 Monsters on the field on your side max, and 2000 attack is powerful (1700 is good, 2300 is very good, 2800 is shiny-card status etc etc, 1000 is obviously only there for it's effect).

Spoiler:

Alright, now here is why this is a bit difficult to do in magic.

First of all, power works much differently. There is no "so weak it's only used for it's effect", there is only "low power compared to the cost" and that sort of can only happen for slower decks.

Secondly, we don't have special summons. On the other hand, we have no restriction on how many creatures you can play per turn or have on your field.

Thirdly, we have far fewer cards with restrictions, because they far too easily become dead draws. Usually, cards can be played almost everywhen, as long as you have the mana for them. Auras for example can only be played if there is a target for it, usually a creature you control, and many players already dislike them for being too restrictive (and also because the aura gets destroyed if the creature dies, which can cause the much disliked 2-for-1)

Forthly, we have the colour pie. White doesn't get too much revival, white doesn't get much kill spells and white certainly doesn't get as much draw spells as in Yu-Gi-Oh! But in return, healing spells are far more common in white then in Yu-Gi-Oh! Which is why paying life isn't a big deal in most cases.

Lastly we have WAY more cards that are useful when in your graveyard. Selfmill is not a downside, it's a bonus. It's most commonly used in Black/Green or Black/Blue but the point that it's a bonus still stands.

Now lets see how we can fit some of this stuff into MtG.

The Lightsworn deck seems to be a fast deck that allows you to fill your graveyard. Well, swarming the field is one of the things white does best, so, awesome. To fit that, you want most of your cards to cost either one or two mana. Three mana are expensive and four mana is only to turn the tide if the game isn't going as it should.
First of all we'll need some one mana creatures to beat up your opponent. With the cards I suggested, this role would be filled by Shire. She is cheap and has some evasion and her power depends on how many Lightsworn have been put into the graveyard from your library. She'll usually only be a 1/1 by herself, which is okay, but once you have more Lightsworn, chances are she'll hit for two to four damage, which is good. If Lightsworn are really as fast as you say, we'd need at least one more one mana creature, so we can start hitting early. Maybe Jain, drop the cost to one and turn him into a 1/1 while keeping the effect. That'd mean he attacks as a 2/1 with first strike, which is good.
Then come the two mana creatures. Right now, whith my suggestions, you'd have Jain, Lyla, Ryko and the cat thing. If we move Jain to one mana, it is noticable that you're running low on attackers now. With his new effect, Ryko makes a pretty great defense, except you kind of want to rush your enemies. The cat is also a bit better later in the game, though then it'll allow you to draw more which is awesome for swarm to protect yourself from dying down. Lyla is okay, though repeated enchantment destruction for a cost isn't nearly as good as cheap, one time destruction on something that can hit better, at least for swarm. For three mana, we're now running into things that are usually too expensive for swarm. Ehren is neat but the cost is usually too high, if you're white swarm and happen to have three mana, you'd much rather play something that boosts all your creatures, or just three more creatures. Arkus and Jenis both are strong, though swarm usually doesn't splash colours, that just slows you down. Both of them would fit much better in a somewhat slower deck. Swarm also can't afford paying three mana just to look for a creatur.
For four mana, you got Lumina and Garoth, thinking about it, Lumina could actually get reduced to a cost of three mana, her effect is far too expensive for swarm and costs black, which as I said, swarm can't afford. Wulf is special and I am unsure if swarm would love or hate him. A free 4/3 is pretty awesome but if you draw him, he becomes useless, so he costs you a draw, which is BAD

For the last four cards, well, the Angel and the two dragons would never fit into swarm as they are right now. The angel could be turned into a three mana creature I guess, which might work. The dragons don't fit into swarm. And to be completly honest, they shouldn't, they are dragons, dragons don't swarm. As for the draw spell, it is still too strong. Not sure what to do about it.

Right now there are two things that could be done with this. Either the creatures become cheaper and more agressive, to fit into White Weenie or they get buffed a bit more and slow down to become a midspeed type of deck. The second would fit the cards as they were originally better but doesn't allow a similar playstyle, while the first would fit the spirit of the Lightsworn better in my opinion, but the specific cards wouldn't

Alright, here is a list of card suggestion if you want them to be more swarmy

Spoiler:

Also, the names would of course need to be changed, only legendary creatures are called by a personal name in their card name. Also, Lightsworn sounds like an odd creature type, maybe you could consider coming up with a better name for that. Lastly, consider making some of these guys humans, they look pretty human.

Fun little thought experiment:

Hmm. I must say, I rather like your edits. A few things though (partially down to miscommunication)

the reason Shire and Aurkus are /secondary/ is because they're not actually very good. The MTG original version missed something about each of them: Shire gets an attack boost for each DIFFERENT Lightsworn in the graveyard, not for each in the graveyard. Typically this will max out at seven and be extremely difficult to get; in return she gets an Attack stat comparable to Celestia's at best. Not worth using ever.

Meanwhile, Aurkus would be really really good because he makes your monsters effect-proof/untargetable by anything but attack; the bit they missed THIS time is that they can't be targeted by your effects either. This means Lumina's summoning majjyyk stops working entirely. A very niche card indeed.
Meanwhile, Rinyan is actually detrimental since it does all the hard work you do; it shouldn't be even remotedly viable.
Gragonith is powerful in a similar vein to Shire, only better, except it has to be summoned the same way as Celestia and Atk isn't everything. Rarely used.
Celestia is able to destroy anything and not just creatures, just once (on being summoned), unless you think limiting it to creatures makes it balanced in which case yeah sure okay.
And Ryko has an additional effect; it doesn't have to be attacked to activate. You can flip it next turn without being attacked and still destroy one card. But again I don't know how that translates well into MTG.

Jenis is shit and death fodder sorry

And Judgment Dragon destroys everything. Since there's no lands in Yugioh, I guess it doesn't necessarily have to destroy those; it certainly destroys Monsters, Spells, Traps and field cards, though. The idea is it attacks without any possible interruption: Can't stop the Judgement. (also you can totally summon several one after the other since the cost is still fulfilled; having so many lands tapped after summoning makes that nonviable) The only way it can be stopped is by effects that activate from the hand or graveyard, or upon being summoned (before being activated), alternatively the opponent can retaliate in so far as that's possible with an empty field during the next turn.

Can Lumina use her effect immediately after being summoned? I don't know how the game works. But she should be able to. That's her purpose in life really.



EDIT: GB Pokemon Trading Card game is fun - haymaker decks are crazy lol