General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by OverlordJ on Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:39 am

NinteNerd wrote:apparently crits only do 1.5x damage in gen6.
Wait, seriously? How dumb is that?
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by muffinz on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:33 am

I thought Frost Breath is 100% accuracy? I'm not sure, but I didn't think it was 90... Also, it has the exact same power as Ice Beam since it (along with Flamethrower and Thunderbolt and Surf) has now had its power lowered to 90. I really like what they've done, actually-- it gives you a choice between taking either a chance to freeze, or the ability to hit through defensive boosts. Now, if only things other than Ice-types could learn it.
 
Yeah, I totally agree, OJ, the critical hit nerf is great. I mean, anything to make things less luck-based is mice.
I feel I should also mention that while the base critical hit probability is unchanged, modifiers to the critical hit rate have a bigger effect. Something with, for instance, Super Luck holding a Scope Lens and using a move with a high critical hit rate has (most likely) about a 50% chance of getting a critical hit, and a Farfetch'd with a Stick using one of those moves will always get a critical hit.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by cephalopodAscendant on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:34 am

Nope, 90% accurate.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Hytheter on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:39 am

NinteNerd wrote:except with 10% less accuracy and -5 BP
I didn't know about the accuracy, but you're actually wrong about the power. Ice Beam and friends are now only 90bp. Fire Blast, Hydro Pump etc are 110. Draco Meteor is 130.

I know. Its a sad day for special attacks.
Except Energy Ball.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by NinteNerd on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:46 am

*waits for subliminal boost to air sl--*
wait nvm the 30% flinch chance makes up for somewhat crappy power.

paraflinch dabess 5ever
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:15 am

I like ALL of these changes Very Happy Blissey became 6-9% better at walling on average. Which she should be able to do anyway, since "powering through" or "waiting for a crit" is a shitty strategy.

Except she still can't feasibly learn Wish and Seismic Toss isn't viable at level 50 so... It's more of a symbolic change.

HEY GUYS THEORYMON TIME
Okay so I'm in the game freak offices with an interviewer.
And they're like 'okay, great so far, we rearry (sorry, couldn't resist) like you, but answer us this: if you had access to the move tables, and could make ONE difference, what would it be?'
So I go with what I think would be good for balancing...

Ignition
40 bp, special [fire]
The user rubs sticks together and throws sparks at the foe. This move always goes first.

And the clincher is, it's mostly distributed to grass types! Roserade, Shiftry, Victreebel, maybe Torterra and Sceptile, Leavanny, Gourgeist etc... Though other types could get it based on balance and possibly flavour if they could get the friction going, e.g rock types, perhaps sudowoodo, but remember it's a special move. Few fire types would have it, Delphox is a perfect fit BUT I want to make it clear that this idea existed before Delphox did. 

I think it'd give a lot of grass types a neat boon, grass fire gives great coverage and so far it's typically been limited to Hidden Power, the base power sucks but that has't stopped other Pokemon, it's boosted in sun and helps with steel types. Meanwhile if few fire types get it then grass types won't have to worry too much about it 'backfiring'. Plus Roserade gets Technician... Anyway there's not a lot of special priority. 

The base power is a concern though. 50 would suit grass types better but may be too powerful, especially in sun, there's always 30 with a chance of burn but that's too weak even with technician. I'd consider 50.

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:37 am

OH YEAH guys all that talk about a new region and stuff, we completely forgot this tidbit (well, knew it and then forgot it in the whole New R debate):
Certain berries are confirmed to be unavailable and can only be obtained by trading from a different region.

Items can't go through bank so that means it's talking about another one. (Or a remake.) That's pretty clear-cut actually...

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Hytheter on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:01 am

d_what wrote:Except she still can't feasibly learn Wish and Seismic Toss isn't viable at level 50 so... It's more of a symbolic change.
How do you figure? It's only half as powerful, but enemies also have half HP. Ok, so it's very slightly higher than half (by 5 points), but only marginally. Seismic Toss is then only very slightly less useful, so if its good at 100 it should be good at 50.
Whether it is good at 100 is another debate...
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:38 am

It's the percentages. 101 HP substitutes are a rare commodity because it means anyone who has them can set up on Blissey. But the formula is different and skewed as you go down the levels and 50bp seismic toss is not going to cut the mustard, so LOADS of things can set up on blissey. 51 is not a quarter of a sub user's health in the same way that 101 is.

Also every attack does on average 4% more in lv.50 battles so stall is less viable. The maths is weird in Pokemon, nothing scales up linearly.

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Hytheter on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:12 am

d_what wrote:It's the percentages. 101 HP substitutes are a rare commodity because it means anyone who has them can set up on Blissey.
The minimum Base HP for 101 subs at Level 100 is 100.
The minimum for 51 subs at Level 50 is...97.
This affects a grand total of two Pokemon. Congratulations Rampardos and Tropius, you can now set up on Blissey. Everyone else saves a marginal amount of EVs I guess? I think you're overstating the effect.
You're right that things don't scale linearly, but they very nearly do. The difference is not all that significant.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:35 am

Okay having seen that I'm sure I'm forgetting something. There was something in a smogon thread about level 50, it made sense at the time...  I think there's a thread going on now about making the standard metagame level 50 where somebody discussed it for a bit.

But given the effect of EVs it does widen the range of Pokémon that could now consider upping their HP to reach that value. Though even EVs are funny at level 50...

Edit: yep found it, you're right, I overexaggerated. It's still a nerf though.
And apparently at level 50, dragon rage can break the subs of Pokemon with a HP base stat of 50 or lower. Very handy to know.

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Hytheter on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:38 am

That thread was locked because of bad discussion. The funny EV's and the slight power boost are valid points though.

They decided to keep it at Level 100 anyway though.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:53 am

Yeah, it made for bad reading. I can see the reasoning behind both points (though "it should be level 100 because it's always been level 100" irks my inner rebel - phrasing it as "it should be level 100 because we're used to the magic numbers e.g damage and speed tiers from previous level100s and it's a difficult thing to adapt to" doesn't). I guess in an ideal world Nintendo would support level 100 battles with auto levelling as standard (at the exclusion of FEARon) or have a really, really easy way to level up.

I know, I know, it's easier now 'because of the mechanics' but it's not EASY and it's long and arduous and boring and unlike EV training or breeding, it doesn't really make a difference in the long term. Plus it's awkward when you want to try out different 'mons in-game for a team rather than on a simulator.

I'd be pro level 50 ONLY for the fact that the smogon analyses would be more accurate for the Pokemon I train, and really level 50 is a substandard meta so that falls on Nintendo more than it does Smogon. 
The stat-blurring is mostly what bothers me. Stats should have a well defined purpose the whole way through :(unfeasible I know, but still.

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Hytheter on Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:13 am

d_what wrote:
The stat-blurring is mostly what bothers me. Stats should have a well defined purpose the whole way through :(unfeasible I know, but still.
What do you mean exactly?
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:38 am

Imagine a graph. At the bottom are the small stat numbers - you know, at level 1 there's not a big difference between the stats of, say, Volcarona and Beedril. But as the levels go up, the stats begin to diverge further and further. Imagine this as a single point (or points) at the bottom of the graph, with lines (representing a particular Pokémon and its stat at a specific level) spreading out and upwards from that point, bouquet style. The pokemon with thr best stats will veer far to the right. Now, picture a well-defined  colourdy blur surrounding each line, like a plastic straw enclosing a piece of wire. This represents the /potential/ range of the stat of a Pokémon given Natures, IVs and EVs. At level 100, even with Max investment, a (let's say) beedril's Sp.Atk is not going to overlap with the lefternmost (weakest) part of Volcarona's possible sp.atk. but as you move back down the lines, down the levels, the 'blurs' get closer and closer together, eventually overlapping. This is why at level 50 the speed tiers are different, as are the ranges of Pokemon a given 'Mon can KO. For example Terrakion suddenly being able to OHKO Garchomp. The actual stats mean less down here, a 1pt difference could equate to a 3 point difference or whatever. They're less defined, and in my eyes, if a Pokémon has the stats to say 'I should outspeed you' or 'I can take a hit from you' then it should be able to do that, and not get merged just because Pokemon doesn't deal in fractions.

Errr. Did that make sense or was it too abstract :/

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by cephalopodAscendant on Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:50 am

d_what wrote:OH YEAH guys all that talk about a new region and stuff, we completely forgot this tidbit (well, knew it and then forgot it in the whole New R debate):
Certain berries are confirmed to be unavailable and can only be obtained by trading from a different region.

Items can't go through bank so that means it's talking about another one. (Or a remake.) That's pretty clear-cut actually...
I thought that was part of the reason we were theorizing about a new region in the first place? I'm 95% confident that we talked about this, if it wasn't what kicked off the discussion.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:01 pm

Dude c'mon that discussion is so old get with the programme

*hides embarrassment*
Spoiler:
embarrassment!

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by phantasmalDexterity on Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:52 pm

I'm curious. Does Meowstic's gender depend on your gender? Cause so far I haven't seen a male Espurr/Meowstic except when I got a Male Espurr through wondertrade. Not even Serena's Meowstic is male.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by kotakun on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:06 pm

serenas should be female though since most trainers have pokemon of their gender the rest all i can say is bad luck
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Hanky Panky on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:49 pm

I dunno; I'm a dude but most of my pokemon teams end up being female majority. Even though it's all chance.

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by OverlordJ on Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:49 pm

It's usually chance for me, so my teams usually have 2 to 3 females.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by cephalopodAscendant on Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:04 pm

For some reason I seem to end up with female Flying-types a lot. No clue why.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by OverlordJ on Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:29 pm

On my main Team for Black, I have three girls and three dudes.

Lassie, the female Bissbark (Stoutland)
Fluffy, the female Elfun (Whimsicott)
Marianne, the female Admurai (Samurott)

Sleipnir, the male Zebritz (Zebstrika)
Quechua, the male Symvolara (Sigilyph)
Koopa, the male Rabigator (Krookodile)
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Gelatino on Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:33 pm

my rotom is bi or something, it prefers not to disclose its gender
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by OverlordJ on Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:34 pm

Do you mean they are transgendered?
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