Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by cephalopodAscendant on Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:20 pm

You don't even need to mess around with the actual code if you don't want to. The spoiler button will prompt you for a title and then do all the dirty work for you.
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by OverlordJ on Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:38 am

I don't think we'll need another thread.
Also, I want all the spoilers as long as they aren't about the story, though I have no problem with spoilers about the story either.

Speculations about attacks related to the new move Freez Dry:
Apparently some people think that we might get dual type attacks, because Freez Dry is an Ice move but also super effective against Water. Others think moves being super effective against certain types will be a new effect.
I think the second option would be both more likely and better, dualtype moves are VERY confusing...
Plus, which second type should Freez Dry have to be super effective against water, shouldn't a second type make it neutral at best?
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by d_what on Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:30 am

I can't believe so many people get more enjoyment outta being surprised by the plot instead of new Pokemon :0 I mean... It's Pokémon. If you want plot, read... Twilight. For comparison's sake. Okay, BW was certainly better plotwise, but it's still pretty anime-schmoltzy. AND still follows the basic structure of all Pokemon games. But this is coming from the guy who thinks story mode is an annoying distraction from FREE PLAY time. So it's not a big deal to me anyway.

Wasn't there another moved "leaked" (though not really) that had a similar effect? Not dual type, but with added SE? It rings a faint but persistent bell...

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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by OverlordJ on Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:48 am

I want to know about the Pokemons exactly BECAUSE they are so important. As I said, Plot spoilers are the only spoilers I don't care about, I WANT all other spoilers. So yeah, I agree with your opinion that plot doesn't matter as much as Pokemons.

About possible super effective moves:
I don't know about any other new move but people have been speculating that it could mean that Scald could become super effective against Ice, after all it already burns the target and thaws you if you're frozen.
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by d_what on Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:17 am

Nah. Makes sense, sure, but it'd be terrible for the game. Ice is already unfairly crippled and scald is unfairly strong. Like... Acid should inflict burn, so should Explosion, and be a fire move, and a bunch of other flavour things, etc, etc...

If Poison is still bad after this gen, I had an idea that would make it better! Instead of poison types being immune from poison, if they GET poisoned they have an inherent poison heal. Gives added usability and cements their defensive strengths. All it would mean is any pokemon that normally runs leftovers gets an immunity to status after the first turn. Not wholly broken. I think it'd be cool! Though instead of 1/8 1/16 would be best.

Did you know? No poison type gets poison heal. I think this is weird.

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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by willPowered on Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:40 am

d_what wrote:Nah. Makes sense, sure, but it'd be terrible for the game. Ice is already unfairly crippled and scald is unfairly strong. Like... Acid should inflict burn, so should Explosion, and be a fire move, and a bunch of other flavour things, etc, etc...

If Poison is still bad after this gen, I had an idea that would make it better! Instead of poison types being immune from poison, if they GET poisoned they have an inherent poison heal. Gives added usability and cements their defensive strengths. All it would mean is any pokemon that normally runs leftovers gets an immunity to status after the first turn. Not wholly broken. I think it'd be cool! Though instead of 1/8 1/16 would be best.

Did you know? No poison type gets poison heal. I think this is weird.
Well, obviously none of them get poison heal, they can't be poisoned.

It would be like giving limber to a pokemon with ground/electric typing.
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by kotakun on Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:41 am

everything is just helpin ice types now before this generation ice had crappy defenses but was great for takin down dragon pokemon because it was either that or dragon again
now look who we have now who has the advantage against dragon fairy or ice
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by OverlordJ on Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:56 am

Yeah, Fairy is unfairly good against Dragon because it's not only super effective but also IMMUNE to dragon attack. Actually, why the frick are fairies immune to dragon type attacks? I mean, resist them would be understandable but immune? Why?
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by d_what on Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:07 am

Cough stunfisk cough. Still think it's weird though. Being outright immune to poison isn't even as good as taking no damage from poison, because that way you still can't get statused. ALSO it weakens the efficiency of poison anyway so they're really not getting a lot of help.

OJ: it's a metagame decision. And a good one. What I don't like is the fact that fairies now have excellent offensive and defensive typing. I mean... Weaknesses to the two worst attack types, really :/ well, excluding normal. They have outstanding coverage and will be tough to hit SE. The dragon thing hardly even comes into it. SE against Fighting? THAT's gonna sting.

Also bug resistance Sad like bugs weren't already in trouble!

What would I do in that situation, I hear you (not) ask? Errr. Make Fairy weak to ice also? Easily exploited and helps Ice types not be outclassed. Also, maybe Psychic resisting fairy for similar reasons. Boosts their defensive prowess and makes bug attacks useful again.

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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by OverlordJ on Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:38 am

I dislike that it seems that the fairy weaknesses and supereffective hits are mainly for Meta reasons. Fairy being weak to Steel is fitting because Fairies are typically weak to iron. Everything else doesn't really make to much sense and I really dislike that. Like, SERIOUSLY dislike that.
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by Spark Eletran on Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:18 am

When it was revealed Fairy was mostly a type to balance the metagame, I was nearly sure that would probably mean not only it would be strong against dragon (And also some other good types in the metagame), but weak against the ones that are considered the "worst" types at the moment, such as, well, Poison. That would make it sort of loop around in a way: Fairy would technically be the new "strongest" type, but is weak against the weakest types. Imagine something sort of like an ace, it's better than every other card, except for, guess what, the one card that's not good against like anything else!

Also, I like that idea D_What. Could be something pretty cool! I've also seen some people saying that Ghost will end up being the new dragon though, because of its current typings (still only two weaknesses) and also new immunity against trapping... But eh, I don't really see it?

Also, I'd like if in some future games we would end up with like, every type having some added "bonus" other than just typing in a way. Doesn't even have to be immunities to certain types of moves, just a little bonus thing to make the type more unique, really!
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by d_what on Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:26 am

Yes! With the bonuses based on how good the type is naturally of course. I can't imagine Steel or Dragon getting anything particularly impressive. OJ, the dragon thing is also a flavour choice. Dragons aren't weak to steel, despite them being stabbed by swords; such swords are almost entirely always magical swords. Hence Fairy. Fire resisting them makes sense if you go back long enough, similar to fairies being weak to steel, some have an aversion to bright light or candles. The poison thing... There's no way that's not just a meta choice. But would you really begrudge poor sweet Poison types the opportunity? As for dragon IMMUNITY, well, questioning that is akin to questioning how exactly Dragon is a type anyway. Do draco meteors have a special draconium element in them? Not much point asking really.


I wouldn't mind a situation where all grass types got some sort of negligible boost in sun. Makes sense.

AWW MAN POISON SHOULD BE IMMUNE TO FAIRY Sad that would have helped a million!@

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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by kotakun on Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:21 pm

the thing is dragons have only been overpowering because they were naturally strong typewise dragons are weak offensively and marginally better defensively we dont need another dragon killing type
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by OverlordJ on Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:31 pm

d_what wrote:Yes! With the bonuses based on how good the type is naturally of course. I can't imagine Steel or Dragon getting anything particularly impressive. OJ, the dragon thing is also a flavour choice. Dragons aren't weak to steel, despite them being stabbed by swords; such swords are almost entirely always magical swords. Hence Fairy. Fire resisting them makes sense if you go back long enough, similar to fairies being weak to steel, some have an aversion to bright light or candles. The poison thing... There's no way that's not just a meta choice. But would you really begrudge poor sweet Poison types the opportunity? As for dragon IMMUNITY, well, questioning that is akin to questioning how exactly Dragon is a type anyway. Do draco meteors have a special draconium element in them? Not much point asking really.


I wouldn't mind a situation where all grass types got some sort of negligible boost in sun. Makes sense.

AWW MAN POISON SHOULD BE IMMUNE TO FAIRY :(that would have helped a million!@
See, that's the thing. At least in the myths I know, a shared weakness among ALL fairy kinds is their weakness to "Cold Iron" (which also helps against ghosts, so that should have been a thing but oh well). This weakness to cold iron is the very reason why horseshoes are signs of good luck, because you would nail them over your door to ward of fairies and ghosts.

I admit, I could see why it would work against Fighting and Dragon, since Fighting is, well, the normal physical way to fight while fairy is sort of the "magical" way to fight and magic is usually stronger then physical powers. Same goes for Dragons. In many myths, Dragons can be harmed only with Magic or, once again, cold iron, since they are magical creatures themself. Which is also the reason why Dragons are weak to Dragons, since they are Magic and Magic can harm them. And while I'd accept a resistance to Dragon moves, even if it would mostly be for meta reasons, I HATE that they gave it an immunity for meta reasons.
I know it isn't the first Immunity for meta reasons (I'm looking at you, Dark type) but I'm upset about it anyways.

Basically, I guess if you think long enough you can come up with reasons that aren't meta for some of these things but that doesn't change that I'm still unhappy about Fairy type.

Though I admit, I'd love to see a cool Fairy/Dark Pokemon. Immune to Dragon and Psychic could be really mean and it should have pretty awesome neutral coverage as well. Maybe we can get some mean little elbs? Or imps? Could be pretty neat.

tl;dr: I am not happy but I haven't given up hope that they'll do somethin that changes my mind.
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by cephalopodAscendant on Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:13 pm

I'd like a Fairy/Dark Pokémon just so we can get some sinister Fairies in here. Hopefully Spritzee won't let us down with its evolution.
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by d_what on Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:21 pm

Don't get your hopes up guys. It'll be a cute pink bird with sneaky origins. See: loads of Pokemon.

Also Fairy/Dark is one of the best offensive combinations around iirc so... REALLY don't get your hopes up.

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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by d_what on Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:23 pm

Don't get your hopes up guys. It'll be a cute pink bird with sneaky origins. See: loads of Pokemon.

Also Fairy/Dark is one of the best offensive combinations around iirc so... REALLY don't get your hopes up.

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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by cephalopodAscendant on Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:23 pm

Um, d_what, why did your comment get posted twice?
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by OverlordJ on Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:25 pm

cephalopodAscendant wrote:I'd like a Fairy/Dark Pokémon just so we can get some sinister Fairies in here. Hopefully Spritzee won't let us down with its evolution.
I totally agree with that. Heck, Spritzee doesn't even have to be /Dark, just something that isn't an embarresment to Plague Doctors.

Something like one of
these:


This one isn't as great but still:

Anything worse then this one isn't acceptable:
And not one of
these:
The other one is okay but NOT Spritzee
Please, no:

Or worst of all:
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by d_what on Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:25 pm

I really do not know :/ I only pressed send once... Cookie problems maybe? I can't delete the second one though. Says it's been replied to.

Hmm.

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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by cephalopodAscendant on Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:26 pm

Can you delete the first one then? They say the same thing, so it doesn't really matter which one gets deleted.
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by d_what on Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:28 pm

Nah, you can only delete the last message on a stack, I.e currently this one. I could change the content, but that sounds too much like time shenanigans and I don't like time shenanigans.

BRAID was a nightmare.

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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by kotakun on Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:23 pm

yes lets totally have the plague doctor become a fairy flamingo that would be the best thing ever and not at all demeaning to the awesomeness that is plage doctors
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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by d_what on Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:52 pm

Yeah I mean flamingos are basically pointless and useless species and should die out because they're not pulling their weight whereas plague doctors were totally efficient and not at all incompetent

But seriously guys
Pink bird
Fairy
Name of Spritzee
9/10ths perfume
A single plague doctor reference, in the world of Pokemon

There's really only one way this can go, and OJ, it's gonna be one of those last two pictures :/

You can always hope for a split evo later, though. Like Frosslass. Speaking of which. Do you think we'll get ANY older Pokémon evolved this gen? Or ever? Or did the outcry from some fans about 4th gen make Game Freak afraid to do anything anymore?

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Re: Pokemon news discussion 2: Spoiler Tag Boogaloo

Post by Druplesnubb on Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:10 pm

I think fairy being weak to pison makes perfect sense. Fairies ofen represent nature while poison often represent/leads to pollution and death of nature. It's pretty much the same reason as to why poison is strong against grass. I personally had really hoped that fairy and steel would both be super effective against each other (fairies are weak to cold iron but fairy-like creatures are also often credited with making iron rust).

I think it can count as a pattern that Gamefreak only adds new types when they're also rebalancing the existing ones. Which makes perfect sense; adding a new type affects the balance between the types and if you're rebalancing all the other types at the same time you can integrate the new type(s) easier without imbalancing the whole thing. Although considering some of their past moves you'd be forgiven for thinking that game freak doesn't give a lick aobut balance between the types.

And flamingos are awesome what the hell is your problem! (not that Spritzee evolving into a some really sinister plague doctor wouldn't be the best thing ever)

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