General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by muffinz on Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:03 pm

You know, I find it hilarious that when we first found out about Clawitzer and Dragalgae, everyone was disappointed that Dragalgae totally overshadowed Clawitzer with its super-cool type and probably better stats, but now that we actually know more about how they preform, Clawitzer is much better. Compare:
evolves at level 48, weak to last two gyms, and about 65/75/90/97/123/45 stats
evolves at level 37, SE sorta-STAB on last two gyms, and about 70/70/90/120/90/55 stats
If anything, Dragalgae's the disappointing one now!
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Hytheter on Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:59 pm

I always thought Clawitzer was cooler. Dragalge is just a Poison-Type Kingdra rip-off anyway.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by cephalopodAscendant on Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:08 pm

They both have appealing qualities, in my opinion.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:12 pm

Uh wait what

Nobody said anything about Dragalge being better than Clawitzer

Okay that's a lie, OJ did, but he was objectively wrong, sorry bro :0 as soon as we saw their respective typings it was well known that Clawitzer would win because at that point we basically knew it everything else about them. Dragalge's saving grace is Adaptability and that's a relatively recent thing, without that, cool typing and sp.def aside it's mauled by over half the metagame and quite a few in-game guys, too.


And Dragalge is only a Kingdra ripoff the same way Volcarona is a Venomoth ripoff >:[ yeeesh we're allowed to have two Pokémon of the same species y'know, that explains most animal-based Pokémon!

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Hytheter on Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:38 pm

Exactly d_what, that's why I don't like Beautifly and Dustox when we already had Butterfree and Venomoth. Or the 2-stage cat mons we get every fucking generation (except 2nd).
I give Volcarona a pass for being damn awesome, and Vivillon sort of gets by on its unique gimmick. Liepard and Meowstic at least have different types to their catlike fellows, but Delcatty and Purugly have no real reason to exist.
That said, I hate Liepard anyway. And I do like Dragalge (but Skrelp is damn ugly) but it bugs me that they've now used both the weedy AND leafy sea dragons, meanwhile there are plenty of more unique animals that haven't been used at all.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Hanky Panky on Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:38 pm

i like dragalge

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by cephalopodAscendant on Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:45 pm

Liepard probably wouldn't bug me as much if it used a different color other than that godawful yellow for the fur on its stomach and feet. Purrloin has cream fur, but as soon as it evolves it becomes this hideous mustard color that clashes horribly with the purple of the rest of its fur. Granted, I probably wouldn't use it even if the colors were revised since its stats are pretty crappy, but it wouldn't aggravate me as much.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Hytheter on Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:46 pm

I think I mostly hate it because there are so many of them in game. And they all have Fake Out.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:53 pm

Hanky I support your overall opinion but objectively that means little because we all know you love Poison types :/

Okay I'll give you liepard. It's completely sub par statistically, akin to the 5th gen starters on terms of competition, and is also sort of an eyesore whilst trying to fill a niche that really was already filled by Persian. Nasty cat, adorable cat, catty cat that turns into alpha male bruiser cat, all fine, but we've had nasty cat before. Typing shouldn't really come into it at all, unless it's an obvious embodiment of the type, e.g Ponyta. And objectively I prefer Dustox and Beautifly to Venomoth and Butterfree, at least design-wise, plus they DID wait a gen and replacing them with their gen 1 counterparts back in RSE would have been lame. You can argue they should have spent the time doing what gen 5 did, I.e designing early bugs that aren't what we're used to, but that's not how it works and anyway we ARE allowed analogues and multiple species. Some people prefer Butterfree to Beautifly and that's all right and proper. Consider Conkeldurr and Machamp. They're identical in many respects but I wouldn't get rid of either of them, and they're not even animals.

Also: extend Pokemon to infinity and you have a nearly infinite number of analogues. This is something we'll have to accept if we want to believe in a universe that doesn't contain "the last ever pokemon game".

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by cephalopodAscendant on Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:56 pm

Personally, I'd welcome repeats of cephalopods, but I might be just a tiny bit biased in this regard. For any other type of animal/plant/fungus/whatever, I don't really care all that much. Unless it's a Pika-clone, in which case I hate it with a burning passion.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Gelatino on Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:01 pm

i like it when they use repeats of animal species because it shows just how much can be done creatively with a single piece of inspiration, and from a biological standpoint, it reflects the nature of the animal kingdom in which some animals may be represented more than others, by number of species. for example, there are 54 extant species of seahorse but only two of hippopotamus. the distribution of the species of the animal kingdom doesn't exactly mirror that of the pokemon species, nor does it have to, since pokemon are fictional, but it's still an interesting parallel to make.

this is a similar argument that i make when i say that i like characters in super smash bros with moves that mirror each other.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Hytheter on Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:11 pm

d_what wrote:Hanky I support your overall opinion but objectively that means little because we all know you love Poison types :/
To be fair, there is a very high proportion of awesome Poison types

Typing shouldn't really come into it at all, unless it's an obvious embodiment of the type, e.g Ponyta.
Considering that typing is one of a Pokemon's most defining attributes I can't help but disagree.
You can argue they should have spent the time doing what gen 5 did, I.e designing early bugs that aren't what we're used to, but that's not how it works and anyway we ARE allowed analogues and multiple species.
I can and do argue that that's what they should do. There's a huge difference between generational analogues (Early game bugs eg Butterfree and Leavanny) and lazy rehashes (Butterfree and Beautifly). You're right: "extend Pokemon to infinity and you have a nearly infinite number of analogues." But how about we at least fill out the greatest possible number of interesting options first?
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by OverlordJ on Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:34 pm

d_what wrote:Nobody said anything about Dragalge being better than Clawitzer

Okay that's a lie, OJ did, but he was objectively wrong, sorry bro :0 as soon as we saw their respective typings it was well known that Clawitzer would win because at that point we basically knew it everything else about them.
1) I didn't say it was better, I said that it was a disapointment that one game gets just another water type while the other one gets another dragon.

1b) I would have liked Clawitzer MUCH better if it would have been a Water/Bug type

2) Say what? Why would a pure water type be better then a poison/dragon?

3) At the point I said it we didn't know exactly how Clawitzers ability would work and while I sort of guessed which moves would be affected, I didn't expect Clawitzer to be able to learn most of the moves affected by its ability. I thought it would only get the water move, making its ability basically pointless.

4) Once we knew it would be able to learn all four moves I quickly changed my mind about Clawitzer

Unrelated to that, I want to tell you something funny.

While I was riding a train, I decided to try to catch Kyurem.

I tried to catch it with Ultra Balls but it usually broke free. I decided I would reset untill I caught it with less then 10 balls. After a few resets I was getting a little frustrated with it. On this try, like usually, I paralized it and then reduced it to 1 HP. When going to my balls I decided to throw one of my three Pokeballs as a joke, since I excepted it to break free obviously, since it did so with Ultra Balls.

Guess who caught a Kyurem in a Pokeball?
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by cephalopodAscendant on Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:37 pm

You know, I never did catch Kyurem in either White or Black 2. I still have to go catch Zygarde in Y, too...
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by ilikeoctopus on Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:03 pm

Yeah, I haven't caught Mewtwo and Zygarde yet. Mostly because I've been breeding and my god is it fun.
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:48 pm

Shiny Vanillite whilst EV training

Hmm 

Should've brought Absol, this is nerve racking

Uuurgh

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:58 pm

AAAAAAARGLE FUCK

SHINY ARBOK NOT 5 MINUTES LATER


AAAAAAGH EV TRAINING HAS SO MANY DISTACTIONS

FUCK I'LL BE UP TO *HERE* IN SHINIES BEFORE I GET DONE WITH THIS GODDAMN TRAINING

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by ilikeoctopus on Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:06 pm

Don't worry, be happy?
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:21 pm

SHINY MOTHERF*CKIN GULPIN

...is not a thing that has happened to me today, thankfully. (Yet...)
Seriously though what the hell. "When it rains, it pours" has been the poke-theme of the day for me.

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by NinteNerd on Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:56 pm

if you so dislike running into shinies, you could just use super training? it's not all that much slower.

i spent like 45 min yesterday hunting for a single, normal arbok, to no avail, and you just come in here with a SHINY one, hhhhhrhrghrgrhrhrh...
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:49 pm

It's pretty slow :/ in comparison. You can get 252 EVs in just 5 battles. The problem is, not every horde is one of Gulpin, Weepinbell or Cubchoo. I use ST to make up the difference when the EVs are non-stndard.

And in any case I was training three Pokemon at once :/ *shrug*

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by muffinz on Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:05 pm

man suppertraining is so fast and so easy its basically the best thing ever
this is the first time ever that ive actually properly evtrained my team during a regular playthrough just cause it takes so little time and so little effort
i mean maybe its SLIGHTLY slower than fighting horde battle after hoard battle but its better in my opinion because you hardly have to think about it at all
its relaxing almost
and it requires nothing other than time whereas for the horde fighting method youve gotta have a sweetscent user and the thing youre training needs to be decent enough to beat the hoards and you have to run back to the center to heal occasionally and often the hord you need is rarer than the rest so you gotta keep running from other hourds until you get one
wheras for soupertraining you can spend all of your time getting more stats with no real distractions

and is it even slower???
12 evs for the level 3 training and it takes maybe 30 seconds to two minutes depending on how much difficulty you have with it compared to a horde which depending on the pokèmon can give 5 10 or 15 but usually 5 or 10
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by d_what on Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:00 pm

...or 50 or 60 given the power items and Pokerus? And a level 80+ surf or EQ user does a lot of the work. And sweet scent users are common plus I love my Vespiquen, Vespiquen is cool <3 the mixed horde distribution of species really is a pain though. Smoochum, Vanillish and Cubchoo all in one area? Gets old real fast, not like HGSS/BW's either single-species or same-ev-type areas, those were cool. Except for BW's Defense. I wonder do Game Freak do all of this stuff accidentally... Sometimes it seems that way.

Muff how did you manage to spell horde so differently so many times in a single post Neutral

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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by NinteNerd on Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:13 pm

p' sure that was done on purpose? i was more focused on souper and supper-training.
the typo tyrant is back, this time packing sparing punctuation! i, the mighty tyboreops, have been dethroned. i mean this in complete playfulness, please don't think i am insulting you.

unrelated: i ran across a jiheddo in victory road yesterday, and in lack of a good nickname, i called it Muffinz. :U
on a side note, did you know you can get level 59 sazandora in there?!?!?
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Re: General chat: Who needs mspaf anyway

Post by Gelatino on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:07 pm

what is a jiheddo and a sazandora

are these new pokemon that i haven't heard of yet

if so don't spoil it, they sound cool
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