Teambuilding and Advice

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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by d_what on Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:40 pm

So you didn't have either rapid spin, defog or SR? Okay then.

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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by Gelatino on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:11 pm

okay so here's the dealio, i have a ghost team that i usually use against noobs in pokemon showdown in OU but i made this team during gen V and i'd like to update it to reflect new ghost-type additions and changes to the metagame. i already upgraded my gengar to a megagengar so that's a start. here's the rundown

Spoiler:

froslass
focus sash
cursed body
timid
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-spikes
-taunt
-ice beam
-destiny bond

sets up spikes. taunt stops most leads and destiny bond usually takes 'em out unless they have priority.

drifblim
leftovers
aftermath
timid
252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-calm mind
-shadow ball
-substitute
-baton pass

passes like a champ. usually passes calm mind boosts to gengar, sometimes to chandelure. i just realized i should probably add more evs to hp

gengar
gengarite
levitate / shadowtag
timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-shadow ball
-focus blast
-thunderbolt
-destiny bond

this guy sweeps better than kepler. once he goes mega, very few things outspeed it. only beaten by pokemon with focus sash or sturdy, and those faster than it. usually doesn't survive enough hits for me to reliably predict a destiny bond.

chandelure
choice scarf
flash fire
timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-flamethrower
-shadow ball
-energy ball
-hidden power ice

mostly a good revenge killer. outspeeds most stuff. good at switching in on fire, but the opponent usually brings in something to block it so i have to switch out.

dusclops
eviolite
pressure
calm (+SpD -Atk)
252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
-willowisp
-toxic
-pain split
-hex

this guy is annoying to fight. willowisp cripples physical attackers pretty well. pain split is good recovery if i can time it right. hex doesn't really do a ton of damage but a lot of damage is usually done by burn damage and pain split.

golurk
life orb
no guard
adamant
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
-dynamicpunch
-earthquake
-shadow punch
-rock polish

this guy is pretty good if he can set up. dynamic punch is 100% guaranteed confusion and a powerful attack too. rock polish makes this guy fast, but not always fast enough. i think i might invest more evs in speed.

i was thinking maybe aegislash would be good. would i need any support for it or does the team already provide enough support? what would i replace?
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by OverlordJ on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:18 pm

Besides a possible Aegislash, maybe consider the fact that Gengar can learn Dazzling Gleam via TM, you know, if you aren't using Destiny Bond anyways. Or maybe a nice poison type attack like Sludge Bomb or something?
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by invisibleTerrarium on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:51 pm

I battled gela's ghost team and we tied
Like an actual draw
Seriously that like never happens
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by tinning3 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:47 pm

I've been doing a little bit of EV training because my team is sort of all over the place, but I can't decide how to spread my Chesnaught's EVs.
He's just been reset bag'd, so he's got no EVs invested anymore, these are his stats:

Adamant nature (attack up, special attack down)
Level 52
HP: 166
Attack: 132
Defense: 137
Sp. Atk: 77
Sp. def: 90
Speed: 79

I'm thinking of Putting half the EVs into Attack, half into Sp. Defence and the leftovers into speed for a little boost. Thoughts from more experienced people? is Attack the way to go, or is it large enough naturally that HP be the better survival option?
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by Dregadude on Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:05 pm

After a few battles yesterday with my revised Black 2 team (see spoiler below), I decided that I need a better strategy than "hope I get lucky and that the motherfucker I'm fighting doesn't have a fucking Ferrothorn". ((HP I'm not ACTUALLY butthurt, just enough for it to sting a bit when I'm sitting.)) So it's back to the drawing board for me. The nice thing is that since my team DID accomplish some victories, however lucky, that tells me that at least I didn't waste my time on a team of utter and complete gargbage. Here's the current team, which has had some changes since its first posting:

badass y'all:

HINDENBERG! Unburden. Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, FlyingGem!Acrobatics, Destiny Bond, AND NOT EXPLOSION ANYMORE SO NOT KABOOSH BUT STILL COULD DRAG YOU DOWN WITH IT USING DESTINY BOND SO EH THE NAME IS STILL PERTINENT I GUESS. EVs in SpA and Spd (252) and HP (4), and has a +SpA, -Atk nature.

Post-battle notes: Proved its worth as a tank, often lasts longer than anybody else on the team.

ELAINE! Static, since Plus is garbage. Thunderbolt, Power Gem, Dragon Pulse, Focus Blast. Holds a Shuca Berry. EVs in Spd and SpA (252) and HP (4). Has a +Spd, -Atk nature.

Post-battle notes: That Shuca Berry's saved it numerous times, but overall its speed (which I just changed to have 252 EVs instead of HP) was its downfall. Maybe this time it'll do better.

AMITI! Huge Power and Water Gem for a killer Water attack. Aqua Tail, Superpower, Ice Punch, Aqua Jet. HP, Atk(, Spd) EVs. +Spd, -SpA.

Post-battle notes: Now that it's part Fairy, it's gotten a lot less useful when dealing with Poison. I'd really like to work Play Rough in there, maybe to replace Ice Punch. So far it's fared pretty well competitively, though.

ARBITER! Trying to get critical hits all the time is hard. Holding a Razor Claw. Super Luck. Stone Edge, X-Scissor, Blizzard, Night Slash. Atk, Spd(, HP) EVs. +Def, -SpA. Shiny.

Post-battle notes: This guy varies between OHKOing two or three in a row to getting killed after a non-crit Stone Edge. Still, I enjoy the gamble. Makes for an interesting match.

TRIANNA! Now with added Choice Scarf. Levitate. Earthquake, Fire Blast, Stone Edge, Dragon Claw. Atk, Spd(, SpD) EVs. +SpD, -Def. Shiny.

Post-battle notes: I guess this is a revenge killer now, huh? It's proved its worth numerous times, and it's really grown on me.

PANZER! Very solid choice for any team. Holds a Rocky Helmet. Zen Headbutt, Meteor Mash, Earthquake, Hammer Arm. HP, Atk(, SpD) EVs. +SpD, -SpD. Shiny.

Post-battle notes: Damn, this guy is tough as nails. Now that steel's nerfed, it's actually a bit of a glass cannon, but can still lay down a fat Hammer Arm on a Dark type before dying. Maybe I could switch that Rocky Helmet for a Colbur Berry? And should I switch Meteor Mash with Gyro Ball?

The biggest thing I've noticed is that my team lacks much special offense, and has too many physical attackers. I think the best thing to do would be to switch one of them with a special attacker, maybe one with a mega form. The best thing I've thought of is switching Hindenberg or Panzer with a Mega Charizard Y.

Dregadude wrote:ADVICE GIMME GIMME
Edit: whoops I stole OP on pages 1 and 5, and with the same team too.
Tin I'd help out but you're asking for experienced players mspa
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by tinning3 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:17 pm

By experienced I mean someone who knows if those numbers I posted are good. I.E, not me, which is why I can' really help you either
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by invisibleTerrarium on Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:05 pm

I am... Moderately experienced?? I guess

Drega I have no idea why you're having trouble with Ferrothorn, just throw a Fire Blast at it and it'll die. Mega charizard y is horrendously overpowered. Go right ahead and use one. >Smile

Tinning I'd say keep the EVs in Atk, but move the SpD ones to HP. Throw the other 4 wherever you want. I might not be the best person to ask for EV shit though.
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by Dregadude on Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:09 pm

I made some changes on my own between last night and now, and Flygon had Fire Punch instead of Fire Blast before.

So, my Charizard: Fire Blast, Solarbeam, Air Slash, Dragon Pulse; has a Charizardite Y; EVs in SpA and Spd (and HP); +Def, -Atk

Mega Charizard Y gives Drought, hence the Solarbeam. I'm about to battle NN, we'll see how that goes.
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by NinteNerd on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:11 pm

alright, Kagu the mawile has perfect IV's in everything but defense and special attack, a jolly nature, and maxed speed EV's. what should i put the other EV's into?
i mean, it's not like the thing needs more attack power, but its bulk isn't gonna be great no matter what i buff.
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by Gelatino on Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:39 am

more attack power

more more more

252 evs with huge power is basically 504 evs
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by Hytheter on Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:35 am

Jolly Nature and Max speed EV's is kiiind of a waste when you only have 50 base speed. The investment isn't really helping you outspeed anything useful. I would've gone Adamant with HP and Attack. It's generally best to play to your strength's, which for Mega Mawile are bulk and power. Investing in speed means sacrificing one of the other two, and it will rarely help you at all.
Either way, you definitely want attack. Max EVs increases your damage output by about 25%. You want that.

Unless you're using non-mega Mawile, but I don't know why anyone would want to do that.
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by tinning3 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:42 pm

invisibleTerrarium wrote:I am... Moderately experienced?? I guess

Tinning I'd say keep the EVs in Atk, but move the SpD ones to HP. Throw the other 4 wherever you want. I might not be the best person to ask for EV shit though.
Thanks for the advice, so far againts NPCs and wild pokemon my Chesnaught's cleaning up. Even super effective moves from similarly leveled mons are hardly a concern with the huge amount of HP, I think it was definatly wise to go for HP rather than the special defence.
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by invisibleTerrarium on Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:10 pm

I WANT YOU ALL TO GO WATCH THIS FUCKING BATTLE RIGHT NOW OH MY GOD JUST WAIT TILL ITS GOURGEIST V MEGA AGGRON JUST DO IT SERIOUSLY WATCH IT THE WHOLE WAY THROUGH IM SO HAPPY
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by OverlordJ on Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:30 pm

Hehe, that's actually surprisingly clever! Very Happy 
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by invisibleTerrarium on Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:54 pm

The guy just like quit in shock and i find that absolutely hilarious mspa
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by Dregadude on Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:48 am

Wow, that was awesome. Too bad Curse is fairly rare, so that's not actually a viable strategy. Trick or Treat in general is a great move though.
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by Dregadude on Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:11 pm

Necro-ing my thread (that's not really an accurate term of course, since this thread is a tool for anyone to use anytime regardless of dead-ness) to post this nifty Sandstorm team I developed this morning.

Sandsweep Stormstakes:
Morte (Excadrill) (F) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Rush
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Sandstorm

Trianna (Flygon) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge

Vriska (Gliscor) (F) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SDef / 128 Spd
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Toxic
- Ice Fang

Panzer (Metagross) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm
- Bullet Punch

Jaxton (Tyranitar) (M) @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Tail
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

phanDex (Donphan) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Endeavor
- Earthquake
- Gunk Shot
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by d_what on Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:53 am

Too many ground types dude :/ you'll be swept by any setup sweeper with an SE move. A weather team doesn't have to be 100% immune from the weather in question.

And anyway if that's what you want you could throw in Mandibuzz, Reuniclus or Alakazam.

NO WAIT
I have determined that the team is an ironic one done for the lulz
There's no way anyone would have Focus Sash on a Donphan. Or Gunk Shot over rapid spin...or so many physical attackers.
Are you feeling OK?? High temperature perhaps???

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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by OverlordJ on Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:54 am

You could also add Sigilyph. I personally quite like Sigilyph.
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by Xaber on Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:51 am

Dregadude wrote:
Morte (Excadrill) (F) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Rush
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Sandstorm
Not sure about Sandstorm and Smooth Rock. You're probably better off just leaving Sandstorm to Smooth Rock Tyranitar or something. If you're running Sand Rush, you may want to run a few Speed evs just to reach particular markers. I'd say just grab another attacking move and stick Life Orb or Leftovers on it.

Trianna (Flygon) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge

You might want to consider U-turn here over Fire Blast or Stone Edge, as it's nice for scouting and is one of the main reasons to use Flygon over Garchomp.

Vriska (Gliscor) (F) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SDef / 128 Spd
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Toxic
- Ice Fang

Are the Speed evs designed to hit any particular benchmark? You might want to have a look at some Speed tiers to decide if there's anything you particularly want Gliscor to outspeed.

Panzer (Metagross) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm
- Bullet Punch

Not sure about the Speed investment here, as Metagross is usually a better tank than sweeper, especially considering Hammer Arm. If you want a cleaner of some sort, perhaps replace Bullet Punch with Agility? Otherwise, just stick the Speed evs in HP and maybe put Earthquake there somewhere, as it's great coverage. I'm also not convinced about the item; perhaps Leftovers or a Choice Band would be a better fit for a tank?

Jaxton (Tyranitar) (M) @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Tail
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

I would suggest replacing Tyranitarite with a Smooth Rock to increase Sandstorm duration, since you don't have any other setters (besides Excadrill, which probably has better things to do). Maybe try and fit Stealth Rock on there as well? It's always nice to have it on something.

phanDex (Donphan) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Endeavor
- Earthquake
- Gunk Shot

Firstly, Focus Sash is unnecessary on Donphan, as d_what has said. Gunk Shot is also a bit strange. I'd say that Mamoswine does this set a lot better if you give it a Focus Sash, since it's stronger and gets STAB on Ice Shard. Donphan's main advantage over Mamoswine is Rapid Spin, but you're already using that on Excadrill.
Overall, this team seems to be mostly bulky sand offense. You do have a few too many physical attackers; while having lots isn't bad, right now the only thing that stands a chance at beating Skarmory is Flygon. Not everything needs to be immune to Sandstorm to be used, although generally you want Pokemon with Leftovers to offset weather damage. I'd suggest some bulky special attackers (Reuniclus is a good one, and it's immune to sandstorm) replacing some of your superfluous physical attackers (Donphan and Gliscor are a bit meh right now). If you're using this team on a simulator (I assume you are) then Terrakion and Landorus are both excellent Pokemon in sand (as long as you don't mind using legendaries).
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by Gelatino on Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:13 am

drega, you should try a sigilyph with calm mind and stores power

that thing hurts
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by OverlordJ on Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:45 am

Man, I LOVE stored power, if you manage to get some stats up that move goes crazy.
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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by d_what on Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:39 pm

Yes it's very fun to use. Sigilyph's a blast. Except, first, it needs some support, which it doesn't have here, and second, you gotta ask: what purpose does this Pokemon serve on my team? The possibility of a strong psychic move, a fighting resistance, and spreading burn, that's what. Okay, the fighting resistance is s good thing - Excadrill, and TTar both kinda require it. Mind you, Gliscor provides it too, but can't do much back, and Sigilyph has many ways to handle them. Except for the often used Ice Punch or Stone Edge, the first of which you are ALSO heavily weak to. Something to consider.
Burn is nice. In fact, its s better way to handle fighting types than Stored Power is, besides Guts users. But it's best on a team with physical weaknesses and your team doesn't scream physically weak. Quite the opposite. And no, Sigilyph does NOT provide the bulk to be called a special wall. Unless it sets up but you can't rely on that.

And that's all. Compare and contrast Mandibuzz - an odd choice but VERY useable this gen, though is about as viable as Sigilyph - or the highly useful Reuniclus and Alakazam, which can do a lot of things really efficiently.

Also I agree that currently Mamoswine trumps Donphan for the role, but that's too many fighting weaknesses to warrant using.

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Re: Teambuilding and Advice

Post by OverlordJ on Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:08 pm

Hmm, the ice weakness is indeed a VERY good point.

I didn't think of Sigilyph being weak to ice, however, so is Mandibuzz without the double resistance to fighting.

That reminds me, if Donphan and Gliscor are removed, there might need to be another mon to deal with flying types. ESPECIALLY if you consider getting rid of Flygons Rock move for U-turn.
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